Apple plans to charge dating app developers using alternative payment systems a 27% commission in The Netherlands, instead of its usual 30% for in-app purchases
by far — is how disingenuous they are. Time and time again I'm made to wonder which of their core principles are important, and which are just PR. And how fluid the distinction is. Nilay Patel / @reckless : “What could the Dutch possibly know about setting appropriate tax rates?” - Apple, probably Rene Ritchie / @reneritchie : Apple and Google offering 3% or 4% off for using outside payment options are clearly trying to establish that it's the least important, least valuable part of the API/IDE/platform services they provide While also warning how valuable trusted payment processing is to users/devs Joe Rossignol / @rsgnl : Apple trying to convert all those Spotify switchers into paid subscribers faster 😉 Steve Troughton-Smith / @stroughtonsmith : You just know the logical conclusion to Apple's train of thought is to start charging a 27% commission for Mac apps outside the Mac App Store. The Mac remains the egregious outlier that undermines all of its arguments. If they get away with this on iOS, why wouldn't they there? @arstechnica : Apple shocks iOS developers with 27% commission on third-party payments https://arstechnica.com/... by @JBrodkin Eric Seufert / @eric_seufert : Apple finally clarified the commission it would charge developers that utilize alternative payments processors for dating apps in the Netherlands App Store: 27%, rather than the 30% it charges for IAPs processed by iTunes. A whopping 3% savings. (h/t @joshburns_sf) https://twitter.com/... Eric Seufert / @eric_seufert : Reminder: to utilize the entitlements Apple has created that authorize alternative payments, a developer has to submit a *separate*, NL-only app bundle. So in order to save 3% on the platform fee (which gets eaten up in CC processing fees), the dev must maintain a separate build Fiona Scott Morton / @proffionasm : I notice the rival payment service must accept a broad selection of cards and Apple Pay. https://twitter.com/... @rileytestut : “shocks” implies this was unexpected...but anyone who's been following Apple news lately could've predicted they'd do something exactly like this 😂 https://twitter.com/... Jon Alper / @jon_alper : @Ihnatko I think it's important to note that Apple is in a meaningfully different power position vs The Netherlands than they are vs China. What they should DO about their power position vs China is a global and decades long question. Also, dating apps employ notoriously nasty methods. Tim Sweeney / @timsweeneyepic : To accept payments (in the Netherlands only, for dating apps only, after asking Apple for explicit permission which they may deny), apps are required to display the following scarlet letter to terrify users about the evils of non-Apple payment processing: https://twitter.com/... Benjamin Mayo / @bzamayo : @hishnash @t3mporarybl1p Its definitely a complicated situation, zero is clearly unfair for Apple and 27% is clearly unfair for alternative payment systems Brandon Paddock / @brandonlive : @Carnage4Life It's interesting to see Apple revealing so plainly that only 3% is needed to cover the cost of operating the system including payment processing and their IAP infra. The rest of the Apple tax/toll is apparently pure profit. Benjamin Mayo / @bzamayo : @t3mporarybl1p @hishnash Thing is, the wider conversation of monopoly is not really about payment systems. It's really about the App Store 27% commission being too high and having no alternative. I can't see rates that high being allowed to stick long-term. Marco Arment / @marcoarment : And after you pay your ~3% to your payment processor, Apple's 27% commission takes you right back up to 30%. Glorious. Come on, THIS is comedy. Amazing, ridiculous comedy. I'd be surprised if a single app ever took them up on this. (And that's exactly by design.) Marco Arment / @marcoarment : Yes. Frame everything with, “What could Facebook do?” People will do whatever Facebook asks them to do, because almost nobody would refuse to use Facebook, Instagram, or WhatsApp for technical or privacy reasons alone. They're stuck there by social/family/work pressure. (1/x) https://twitter.com/... Rene Ritchie / @reneritchie : Still stupefying to me Apple didn't get ahead of App Store regulation years ago App Store may not seem to be core business like iPhone, but over the next decades end points will become fuzzier, and tied together only by the ecosystem that powers it Usually play a longer game Tim Schmitz / @timschmitz : By demonstrating just how much power they truly hold, Apple is actually making the case for sideloading. It's hard to imagine they don't realize how much risk they're creating for themselves, but I can't think of another explanation. https://twitter.com/... @carnage4life : I'm truly impressed that Apple is just going to give the middle finger 🖕 to every regulator that tries to get in the way of their 30% cut. Andy Ihnatko / @ihnatko : When a local law is inconvenient or affects their bottom line, Apple will sneer and circumvent it. If it merely kneecaps iPhone users' power to defend their privacy against an oppressive and inhumane domestic surveillance program, they're cool with it. https://9to5mac.com/... Marco Arment / @marcoarment : I actually agree with most of Apple's concerns over side-loading. I REALLY don't want that, as I wrote last fall: https://marco.org/... But by refusing to yield on the IAP front, Apple is practically forcing regulators to act with a stronger hand and force side-loading. https://twitter.com/... Tom Gara / @tomgara : And making them display a full-screen warning that users are bypassing the “private and secure” payment system https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/... Zac Hall / @apollozac : Apple will also require a finder's fee for all successful relationships formed through the App Store https://twitter.com/... @dhh : “Apple has just revealed to the world how they might go from a $3T company to a $100T company: Just send every business dependent on an app a demand to audit their books, then mail them an invoice for 27% of their economic activity.” https://world.hey.com/... Alex Russell / @slightlylate : Why does iOS need real browser choice? In part, to act as a counterbalance to an app store run by an inveterate, unrelenting, unremorseful bad-actor. https://infrequently.org/... Alex Russell / @slightlylate : Apple has demolished the web, taxed everyone, and ruined many businesses to maintain its cut of problem-gambling behaviour through in-app purchases in a small number of “casual” game players. It's repulsive. https://www.ben-evans.com/... Alex Russell / @slightlylate : It's nearly impossible to keep up with all the instances of Apple acting shamefully toward developers and mocking regulators and users along the way. https://twitter.com/... Blake E. Reid / @blakereid : Anyone writing an app store competition bill needs to internalize this preview of how Apple will fight compliance and consider how to equip regulators with the tools necessary to make privacy/security vs. competition determinations without getting wrapped around the axle. https://twitter.com/... Damien Geradin / @geradinlaw : @Apple's statement is NOT compliant with the @AutoriteitCM's order mandating them to allow dating app developers to use their own in-app payment solutions or off-app payment solutions. The @AutoriteitCM will have no choice but to fine @Apple again. https://developer.apple.com/ ... Chris Lacy / @chrismlacy : The ability of Apple to legally muddy the waters of direct payments to the point where they're charging 27% commission is so damn impressive. It's like Baxter eating a wheel of cheese. I'm not even mad. Just so impressed. #🧀🧀🧀 https://9to5mac.com/... Marco Arment / @marcoarment : This is GOLD [screencap of Apple's modal sheet for Dutch alt payments] Shira Ovide / @shiraovide : Welp, very curious to see how the Dutch regulators respond to this. https://9to5mac.com/... Alex Russell / @slightlylate : Keep in mind that cost for developers and confusion for users are a *goal* of this sort of policy. The more these minimally-conforming proposals are a geo-specific patchwork, the better it is for monopolists. They want us to be angry at the regulators, not them. https://twitter.com/... Mark Gurman / @markgurman : At 27%, this will end up costing dating apps in the Netherlands even more. Processing will likely cost at least 3% + additional engineering work. https://www.bloomberg.com/... @ia : And that's why we decided to sell our next Mac app (@iapresenter) outside the store. https://twitter.com/... Russell Ivanovic / @rustyshelf : We all knew this was coming. I told people exactly this would happen. But to see it so blatantly in writing is frankly, disgusting. 27% commission when processing your own payments. Duck the duck off you ducking ducks 🦆 🦆 🦆 Regulation can't come soon enough https://twitter.com/... Chance Miller / @chancehmiller : You can't make this stuff up https://twitter.com/... Ben Cousens / @bitspooky : Imagine using a payment rail so “apparently” expensive that the only way to make it “affordable” is to apply a 27% surcharge. I think there's a payment method that costs nothing to process payments, but the name escapes me... @zebedeeio can you help? https://9to5mac.com/... @alexhern : Apple has been legally compelled to allow dating apps to bypass in-app purchases in the Netherlands, so it's doing that - and charging anyone who does so 27% of their sales. https://developer.apple.com/ ... Jon.Porter / @jonporty : Looking forward to redefining “going dutch” as my girlfriend paying for 27 percent of my dinner even when we're not eating together https://www.theverge.com/... Saagar Jha / @_saagarjha : Who exactly is https://developer.apple.com/ ... intended to fool? 27% commission, you need to put ads for the App Store in front of all links...it's like Apple just went on Twitter and took all the “lol what if they just implemented it like this” joke takes and then went through with them https://twitter.com/... Maximiliano Firtman / @firt : This is amazing. If you have a dating App in the Netherlands you can request an special entitlement to Apple. If granted, users can pay with an external payment provider if you comply with requirements and pay Apple a 27% fee of every transaction you make. https://developer.apple.com/ ... https://twitter.com/... Damien Geradin / @geradinlaw : (1) New @Apple statement regarding the measures it intends to take to comply with the @AutoriteitCM's order re its App Store practices. Whether Apple is now compliant will require some analysis. https://developer.apple.com/ ... Donny Wals / @donnywals : Dang... Even though Apple's required to allow dating apps in The Netherlands to use their own payment systems, Apple managed to make sure it's so painful that I'm sure most apps would not even want to anymore 😅 https://developer.apple.com/ ...
Absolutely vile. This says everything about @tim_cook's Apple and what it thinks of developers. I hope the company gets exactly what it deserves. Everybody on their executive team should be ashamed, and some of them should not be here when it's all over. We all see you https://tw…
Even if you're not a dating app in the Netherlands, this is worth a read. This is almost certainly how Apple plans to comply with ALL external-purchase regulations, until and unless they're forced to be more permissive: https://developer.apple.com/ ...
I wonder what Apple's endgame is in responding to every law that says they should allow developers to use Stripe instead of their IAP system with “sure, but we still want a 27% cut”. Do they think regulators will be like “shucks, I guess you outsmarted us you wascally wabbit?” ht…
Apple will comply with the law in Netherlands to allow dating apps to use alternative payment systems but will still charge 27% commission. After Stripe fees of 2.9%, it will cost developers money to not use Apple IAPs. This defeats the purpose of the law https://9to5mac.com/...
Here's a great summary of Apple's bad-faith compliance with the Dutch payment competition ruling. Apple knows their actions are a sham. The world knows their actions are a sham. Apple knows the world knows their actions are a sham. Yet Apple continues the sham. https://twitter.co…
We've been told that if Apple ever asked its employees to betray their principles, they'd leave. In a similar vein, everybody, top to bottom, involved in planning, editing, implementation of everything in this document should leave Apple. You betrayed us https://developer.apple.c…
You can just FEEL how much they despise having to do any of this. They're making non-App-Store payments as painful, expensive, and clunky as the regulators will tolerate. It's so, so good. It can be summarized perfectly with a single character: 🖕 https://developer.apple.com/ ...
Apple is going to fight this tooth and nail instead of adjusting it's services business model from being that of a rent seeker which is a shame. They've created enemies among developers and regulators with their shenanigans. https://www.theverge.com/...
Apple dropping its commission to 27% for Netherlands dating apps that don't use its payment processing is the ultimate finesse dick move, since 3% is probably exactly what devs would lose to an external payment processor.
This is Apple's mockup of the system sheet that must be shown to users, warning them they are about to use a non-Apple payment system. Clearly, the design team had to rush this out before the end of week to avoid another 5m euro fine from the Dutch authorities. https://twitter.co…
This is perfect* - it's implying-without-technically-saying- it that other payment services aren't “private and secure”. Apple mastering the art of legalese is where we're at in 2022. Proper regulation can't come soon enough. *ridiculous and downright user-hostile https://twitter…
So what this means practically is that merchants will pay more than the 30% they pay Apple today AND they'll have to spend money/time on an employee sending this report and then processing the invoice to Apple. Also how does this work with the small business program? https://twit…
I'm excited to see what kind of shenanigans Apple tries if there's ever a must allow side loading law. My guess, sure you can side load but no you can't use any Apple technologies to develop that software.
And after you pay your ~3% to your payment processor, Apple's 27% commission takes you right back up to 30%. Glorious. Come on, THIS is comedy. Amazing, ridiculous comedy. I'd be surprised if a single app ever took them up on this. (And that's exactly by design.)
Still stupefying to me Apple didn't get ahead of App Store regulation years ago App Store may not seem to be core business like iPhone, but over the next decades end points will become fuzzier, and tied together only by the ecosystem that powers it Usually play a longer game
By demonstrating just how much power they truly hold, Apple is actually making the case for sideloading. It's hard to imagine they don't realize how much risk they're creating for themselves, but I can't think of another explanation. https://twitter.com/...
Apple isn't evil, by any stretch. But the thing that annoys me the most about the company — by far — is how disingenuous they are. Time and time again I'm made to wonder which of their core principles are important, and which are just PR. And how fluid the distinction is.
Apple and Google offering 3% or 4% off for using outside payment options are clearly trying to establish that it's the least important, least valuable part of the API/IDE/platform services they provide While also warning how valuable trusted payment processing is to users/devs
You just know the logical conclusion to Apple's train of thought is to start charging a 27% commission for Mac apps outside the Mac App Store. The Mac remains the egregious outlier that undermines all of its arguments. If they get away with this on iOS, why wouldn't they there?
Yes. Frame everything with, “What could Facebook do?” People will do whatever Facebook asks them to do, because almost nobody would refuse to use Facebook, Instagram, or WhatsApp for technical or privacy reasons alone. They're stuck there by social/family/work pressure. (1/x) htt…
Apple finally clarified the commission it would charge developers that utilize alternative payments processors for dating apps in the Netherlands App Store: 27%, rather than the 30% it charges for IAPs processed by iTunes. A whopping 3% savings. (h/t @joshburns_sf) https://twitte…
Reminder: to utilize the entitlements Apple has created that authorize alternative payments, a developer has to submit a *separate*, NL-only app bundle. So in order to save 3% on the platform fee (which gets eaten up in CC processing fees), the dev must maintain a separate build
“shocks” implies this was unexpected...but anyone who's been following Apple news lately could've predicted they'd do something exactly like this 😂 https://twitter.com/...
@Ihnatko I think it's important to note that Apple is in a meaningfully different power position vs The Netherlands than they are vs China. What they should DO about their power position vs China is a global and decades long question. Also, dating apps employ notoriously nasty me…
To accept payments (in the Netherlands only, for dating apps only, after asking Apple for explicit permission which they may deny), apps are required to display the following scarlet letter to terrify users about the evils of non-Apple payment processing: https://twitter.com/...
@hishnash @t3mporarybl1p Its definitely a complicated situation, zero is clearly unfair for Apple and 27% is clearly unfair for alternative payment systems
@Carnage4Life It's interesting to see Apple revealing so plainly that only 3% is needed to cover the cost of operating the system including payment processing and their IAP infra. The rest of the Apple tax/toll is apparently pure profit.
@t3mporarybl1p @hishnash Thing is, the wider conversation of monopoly is not really about payment systems. It's really about the App Store 27% commission being too high and having no alternative. I can't see rates that high being allowed to stick long-term.
When a local law is inconvenient or affects their bottom line, Apple will sneer and circumvent it. If it merely kneecaps iPhone users' power to defend their privacy against an oppressive and inhumane domestic surveillance program, they're cool with it. https://9to5mac.com/...
I actually agree with most of Apple's concerns over side-loading. I REALLY don't want that, as I wrote last fall: https://marco.org/... But by refusing to yield on the IAP front, Apple is practically forcing regulators to act with a stronger hand and force side-loading. https://t…
And making them display a full-screen warning that users are bypassing the “private and secure” payment system https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/...
“Apple has just revealed to the world how they might go from a $3T company to a $100T company: Just send every business dependent on an app a demand to audit their books, then mail them an invoice for 27% of their economic activity.” https://world.hey.com/...
Why does iOS need real browser choice? In part, to act as a counterbalance to an app store run by an inveterate, unrelenting, unremorseful bad-actor. https://infrequently.org/...
Apple has demolished the web, taxed everyone, and ruined many businesses to maintain its cut of problem-gambling behaviour through in-app purchases in a small number of “casual” game players. It's repulsive. https://www.ben-evans.com/...
It's nearly impossible to keep up with all the instances of Apple acting shamefully toward developers and mocking regulators and users along the way. https://twitter.com/...
Anyone writing an app store competition bill needs to internalize this preview of how Apple will fight compliance and consider how to equip regulators with the tools necessary to make privacy/security vs. competition determinations without getting wrapped around the axle. https:/…
@Apple's statement is NOT compliant with the @AutoriteitCM's order mandating them to allow dating app developers to use their own in-app payment solutions or off-app payment solutions. The @AutoriteitCM will have no choice but to fine @Apple again. https://developer.apple.com/ ..…
The ability of Apple to legally muddy the waters of direct payments to the point where they're charging 27% commission is so damn impressive. It's like Baxter eating a wheel of cheese. I'm not even mad. Just so impressed. #🧀🧀🧀 https://9to5mac.com/...
Keep in mind that cost for developers and confusion for users are a *goal* of this sort of policy. The more these minimally-conforming proposals are a geo-specific patchwork, the better it is for monopolists. They want us to be angry at the regulators, not them. https://twitter.c…
At 27%, this will end up costing dating apps in the Netherlands even more. Processing will likely cost at least 3% + additional engineering work. https://www.bloomberg.com/...
We all knew this was coming. I told people exactly this would happen. But to see it so blatantly in writing is frankly, disgusting. 27% commission when processing your own payments. Duck the duck off you ducking ducks 🦆 🦆 🦆 Regulation can't come soon enough https://twitter.com/..…
Imagine using a payment rail so “apparently” expensive that the only way to make it “affordable” is to apply a 27% surcharge. I think there's a payment method that costs nothing to process payments, but the name escapes me... @zebedeeio can you help? https://9to5mac.com/...
Apple has been legally compelled to allow dating apps to bypass in-app purchases in the Netherlands, so it's doing that - and charging anyone who does so 27% of their sales. https://developer.apple.com/ ...
Who exactly is https://developer.apple.com/ ... intended to fool? 27% commission, you need to put ads for the App Store in front of all links...it's like Apple just went on Twitter and took all the “lol what if they just implemented it like this” joke takes and then went through …
Looking forward to redefining “going dutch” as my girlfriend paying for 27 percent of my dinner even when we're not eating together https://www.theverge.com/...
This is amazing. If you have a dating App in the Netherlands you can request an special entitlement to Apple. If granted, users can pay with an external payment provider if you comply with requirements and pay Apple a 27% fee of every transaction you make. https://developer.apple…
(1) New @Apple statement regarding the measures it intends to take to comply with the @AutoriteitCM's order re its App Store practices. Whether Apple is now compliant will require some analysis. https://developer.apple.com/ ...
Dang... Even though Apple's required to allow dating apps in The Netherlands to use their own payment systems, Apple managed to make sure it's so painful that I'm sure most apps would not even want to anymore 😅 https://developer.apple.com/ ...