Discussion

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  Today: Lost a court case, climbed a mountain, read hundreds of pages of legal papers, wrote some code. Just as determined as ever to fight on until there is genuine developer and consumer freedom in software, and fair competition in each mobile platform software component. https:…

• @elonmusk Elon Musk on x

  @TimSweeneyEpic Please challenge Tim of Apple to trial by combat 🙏

• @ohnoitsalexx Alex on x

  If you want ‘consumer freedom in software’ Stop restricting the consumers freedom in where to buy that software. https://twitter.com/...

• @alexstamos Alex Stamos on x

  Agreed. I think this is a smart ruling. The judge understood the security benefits of the app store monopoly while also stopping that monopoly from being used to bilk consumers and independent developers. Apple should be fine with the profit margin on $799 phones. https://twitter…

• @markgurman Mark Gurman on x

  As expected, Epic Games has just filed a notice of appeal for the case versus Apple to the ninth circuit court. It continues.

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  @elonmusk I believe in resolving disputes through dialog. Battle Rap is totally dialog BTW.

• @benedictevans Benedict Evans on x

  @CyberneticSeman It's an entirely accurate description. Apple has imposed policies to protect user privacy and user security on iOS. Those are competitive advantages. They would be weakened or removed if there were no restrictions on what apps could do. Life is trade-offs.

• @elonmusk Elon Musk on x

  @TimSweeneyEpic Didn't you sorta win? https://twitter.com/...

• @ryanmruark @ryanmruark on x

  Good. The injunction did not solve the problem. As long as Apple imposes either a heavy fee or the need for heavy third-party infrastructure for private companies to choose their vendor partners, the abusive monopoly power is unresolved. https://twitter.com/...

• @chankarunaratne Chandima Karunaratne on x

  @markgurman This is proof that the case was all about Epic and not the devs as they showed it to be. It was a resounding victory for devs in terms of money they can save. Disgusting from Epic for using developers in this case.

• @film_girl Christina Warren on x

  I love this from @mgsiegler. It underscores what I've been arguing for the last couple of years: if Apple would just make sensible changes, so much of the regulatory scrutiny would go away, so much goodwill would be restored and so little would be lost https://500ish.com/...

• @benedictevans Benedict Evans on x

  One of the more entertaining parts of Friday's Epic v Apple ruling is the judge pointing out things like this. https://twitter.com/...

• @backlon Dieter Bohn on x

  Apple won the vast, vast majority of issues Epic tried to bring up, but also I feel like all of those were long shots. But there is an actual win in all those losses (anti-steering), so I'm fascinating by Epic's rhetoric here. https://www.theverge.com/...

• @neilcybart Neil Cybart on x

  Just finished my first full read-through of the Epic Games vs. Apple ruling. One has to read the full ruling to get the proper context for the anti-steering portion of the ruling. For example, this rushed headline from the Verge is false. https://twitter.com/...

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  Fortnite will return to the iOS App Store when and where Epic can offer in-app payment in fair competition with Apple in-app payment, passing along the savings to consumers.

• @gruber John Gruber on x

  @darryld13 I don't blame @FOSSpatents for not reading all my tweets, but “it's clear if you read the whole ruling” is what I've been arguing all along. Example: https://twitter.com/...

• @willoremus Will Oremus on x

  Apple called the Epic Games antitrust verdict a “huge win.” It wasn't. My story about why the App Store remains on shaky ground: https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  Today's ruling isn't a win for developers or for consumers. Epic is fighting for fair competition among in-app payment methods and app stores for a billion consumers. https://twitter.com/...

• @johnvoorhees John Voorhees on x

  The injunction against Apple is fascinating. A single state's law applied nationally by a federal judge. Not unheard of, but an indication the judge was not pleased with how the App Store is run. https://www.macstories.net/... https://twitter.com/...

• @stevesi Steven Sinofsky on x

  @jonfortt @reckless One small lesson from my own experience is you don't want to be like that with regulators. It might work with the court, but regulators look at behavior like that as bad intentions. It takes an opportunity to grant them their pound of flesh and makes them ask …

• @rjonesy Ryan Jones on x

  Out with family, but must say now that I got a LOT wrong (bc it's shit writing). More later. Summary - Apple must allow >0 links. i.e. - Can forbid in-app, webview - Can mandate X% fee, 1 link, same price, Apple Pay... anything really >0 links. That's it. It's up to Apple.

• @senblumenthal Richard Blumenthal on x

  Two big antitrust rulings show why we must update our antitrust laws for the digital age. The danger is greater than just Apple & Facebook going scot-free with continuing anti-competitive, anti-consumer practices. It's all Big Tech unfairly exploiting its monopolistic power. http…

• @reedalbergotti Reed Albergotti on x

  Good analysis by @WillOremus. Apple is at least a little worse off after the Epic verdict. The judge almost begs another plaintiff to bring a new case. And the use of California law, if upheld on appeal, opens a new seam for antitrust plaintiffs to take on big tech. That's huge. …

• @matthewstoller Matt Stoller on x

  Yup, the judge really wanted to rule against Apple on the Sherman Act, but Epic's lawyers at Cravath, Swaine & Moore adopted the wrong antitrust theory. And the expert economics testimony was garbage, as usual. https://twitter.com/...

• @reckless Nilay Patel on x

  @jonfortt You could try any of these things, but all of them end up back in front of a judge who is clear she wants price competition in the store

• @film_girl Christina Warren on x

  And students of business history should know that you never want regulators to force you into an action. Doing it voluntarily is always better. For everyone.

• @neilcybart Neil Cybart on x

  I'm also seeing a lot of “implications from the anti-steering ruling depend on how you interpret this one sentence.” No, it doesn't. You have a 185-page ruling that lays out exactly what the judge meant and didn't mean by her anti-steering comments.

• @fosspatents Florian Mueller on x

  My apologies to @gruber: he was not “right for the wrong reasons” (as I concluded based on multiple tweets that focused on Apple's own guidelines) but “right for the right reasons” — I hadn't seen one part and will modify the post accordingly. https://twitter.com/...

• @mrjefago Jens-Fabian Goetzmann on x

  Here's another, more in-depth analysis why the Epic vs Apple injunction doesn't mean that Apple needs to allow in-app credit card flows for digital goods (by @FOSSpatents): https://www.fosspatents.com/ ...

• @moonalice Roger McNamee on x

  Excellent report by @WillOremus. Epic case has one clear negative for @Apple — it limits AppStore lock in — and lays ground for future cases in CA against Apple and others. Tolerance of monopoly is disappearing, with profound implications for Big Tech. Feds are watching, too. htt…

• @jonfortt Jon Fortt on x

  If you were Apple, @reckless, wouldn't you just charge third-party payment platforms a toll for access to the capability to be the default payment system within an app? https://twitter.com/...

• @fosspatents Florian Mueller on x

  Federal judge awards #EpicGames a mere consolation prize against #Apple, which regrettably succeeded with its ‘web apps are viable’ lie http://www.fosspatents.com/... #appstore #antitrust #ios #fortnite #freefortnite #epicvapple #epic #webapps #html5

• @fosspatents Florian Mueller on x

  It surprises me that a reputable IT news website like @verge doesn't post a correction to—or simply delete—an article in which @reckless expressed a wholly unreasonable legal opinion that I've exposed on my blog. Key industry players tell me privately I'm unfortunately right.

• @tanayj Tanay Jaipuria on x

  Apple's App Store is likely doing ~$225B in total payment volume annually. Stripe right now after the Apple v Epic ruling: https://twitter.com/...

• @jerryluti @jerryluti on x

  The silly thing is to trust my credit card with a link outside AppStore, met a lot of users who said they will never do that so Apple wins. AppStore refund policy is one of the best trusting a link outside the store would be useless. https://twitter.com/...

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  Thanks to everyone who put so much time and effort into the battle over fair competition on digital platforms, and thanks especially to the court for managing a very complex case on a speedy timeline. We will fight on.

• @ruanviljoen Ruan Viljoen on x

  Could not agree more with @mgsiegler on this one. End it Apple, please! https://500ish.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @ohmdee @ohmdee on x

  Whether it's Apple's attitude towards the courts and governments, or its treatment of developers and customers, or its view of competitors, one factor is common: their unabashed arrogance. https://twitter.com/...

• @skupor Scott Kupor on x

  Everything you need to know - or at least I what I thought was interesting - in <100 tweets about the Apple/Epic lawsuit verdict today.

• @slightlylate Alex Russell on x

  This by @mgsiegler highlights the quandry that mobile OS vendors have now, and it's gonna be fascinating to see if they take the door out that would actually keep their users safe. https://500ish.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @johnwilson John Wilson on x

  Disagree. MG is a thoughtful person on this but the Japanese settlement and this recent decision really show that Apple can make minor changes that empower devs while maintaining their current posture. https://twitter.com/...

• @evdz Erwin van der Zande on x

  “Apple should just take a look around, see which way the wind is blowing, and make some major changes to appease the courts and to please their developers. End this.” https://500ish.com/...

• @ppk007 Pravin on x

  Best analysis of the Epic vs Apple suit and the judge's injunction. This is actually favorable to Epic and the dev community. Apple is sliding down the slippery slope - more goodness for devs. https://500ish.com/...

• @gruber John Gruber on x

  @reckless No, that's not at all what they're saying on background. They're saying the ruling is unambiguous that Apple is allowed to mandate that (lowercase) in-app purchases must use Apple's (uppercase) In-App Purchase processing. Pages 149-150 of the ruling.

• @andrewrsorkin Andrew Ross Sorkin on x

  Short Version of Judge in Epic-Apple ruling: Apple isn't a monopoly by any federal definition, but it engages in anticompetitive practices under California state law.

• @jeiting Jacob Eiting on x

  kk, I think a weirdly placed comma has everyone in a tizzy remove the “and their metadata buttons,” and the interpretation is purely about linking out, no outside payments in the app have on some authority that this is Apple's understanding too https://twitter.com/...

• @rebeccaslatkin Rebecca on x

  I might not know much but after spending nearly a year working on a team of 50+ to get an e-commerce giant PCI compliant (including a terrifying audit&interrogation/a very bumpy Black Friday), I would cling to the App Store Payment System instead of taking that on internally.

• @tha_rami Rami Ismail on x

  I think the legal system is broken in a million ways, but you have to admit that listening to two game corporations arguing about the definition of “game” and the judge deciding that “you're both full of shit” feels like a pretty just outcome. https://www.theverge.com/...

• @markgurman Mark Gurman on x

  Quite frankly, whole strategy is a total head scratcher. Epic PR should be positioning this as a win for themselves because they got a judge to make the biggest business model change to the App Store in its history. Instead of they are calling it a loss. https://twitter.com/...