Most of Epic's complaints against Apple and Google apply to console makers, which Epic conveniently ignores; most gamers likely play Fortnite on consoles

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo demand the same platform control—and the same 30% fee. — Yesterday, Epic used Fortnite …

Ars Technica 2020-08-15 Kyle Orland

Context & Ripple Effects

Epic's fight with Apple began when the company implemented its own payment system inside Fortnite and got removed from the App Store within a day, then escalated into a deliberate campaign — weaponizing Fortnite with Apple as the primary target — plus suits and complaints against both Apple and Google in the US, UK, Australia, and Brussels. Ars Technica's point is that the complaint sheet is selectively scoped: Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo demand the same platform control and the same 30% cut, yet sit outside Epic's legal crosshairs even though most Fortnite players are on consoles.

The omission matters because Epic has already run this playbook selectively once before — Tim Sweeney kept the Android version off Google Play entirely via fortnite.com back in 2018 — and because the contradiction eventually surfaced in court: under cross-examination in Epic v. Google, Sweeney admitted Epic pays the same 30% to Sony, Xbox, and Nintendo while calling Android a "fake open platform" (his own testimony).

First-order effects

Epic's antitrust framing targets only the mobile gatekeepers, leaving Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo's identical 30% fees and platform control unchallenged even though consoles are likely where most Fortnite revenue changes hands.

Second-order effects

If Epic wins fee or payment concessions from Apple or Google, console makers face the same demands from developers with a proven legal template — but Epic's own silence gives them cover to hold the line.

Third-order effects

If the pattern holds, the 30% platform fee stops being an industry norm and becomes a litigated question across every gaming gatekeeper — meaning any durable settlement or regulatory outcome would have to decide whether consoles are exempt or simply next.

The trend: Platform-fee antitrust pressure is spreading from mobile app stores toward the entire gaming distribution stack, with console makers' identical terms making them the obvious next test case.

Discussion

@fortnitegame Fortnite on x
Fortnite Party Royale will premiere a new short: Nineteen Eighty-Fortnite. Join us at 4PM ET. https://twitter.com/...
@sarthakgh Sar Haribhakti on x
Translation : We squeezed user growth from Apple Store for more than two years, are now financially secure and diversified enough across platforms to spin our self interest as a moral imperative. We want to run our own app stores & take a cut on nearly billion iphones. https://tw…
@s8mb Sam Bowman on x
This is good. Why doesn't Epic object that *consoles* are closed platforms that take a 30% cut, as well as iOS and the Google Play Store? https://arstechnica.com/...
@firstadopter Tae Kim on x
Sony is an investor in Epic too “Most if not all of the complaints Epic makes against Apple and Google seem to apply to Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo in the console space as well. All three console makers also take a 30-percent cut” https://arstechnica.com/... https://twitter.com…
@stroughtonsmith Steve Troughton-Smith on x
The idea that the de facto primary computing platform for most of the world is an ‘app console’ is trash. Apple may be treating it like a console, but it's so much more important than that and is a critical component in the daily lives of nearly everybody on this planet https://t…
@amelnychuck Alex Melnychuck on x
Anyone who thinks Epic is going up against Apple with the intention of passing the full savings back to users long term is playing right into Epic's strategy. It's a profit margin grab, and a beautifully crafted marketing campaign to bring Fortnite users up in arms against Apple.…
@ballmatthew Matthew Ball on x
Wow. Epic outright promoting direct in-app payment around iOS store but in iOS apps And users collect 100% of the savings. No monetary benefit to Epic. Note: McDonalds, Starbucks, et al are ‘allowed’ to do this today - but not gaming/media cos https://www.epicgames.com/... https:…
@markgurman Mark Gurman on x
Apple's statement on removing Fortnite: https://twitter.com/...
@__apf__ Adrienne Porter Felt on x
remarkably clever satire; Epic's marketing department deserves a raise https://www.theverge.com/...
@timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x
Another argument against supporting #FreeFortnite is “this is just a billion dollar company fighting a trillion dollar company about money”. But the fight isn't over Epic wanting a special deal, it's about the basic freedoms of all consumers and developers.
@timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x
The primary opposing argument is: “Smartphone markers can do whatever they want”. This as an awful notion. We all have rights, and we need to fight to defend our rights against whoever would deny them. Even if that means fighting a beloved company like Apple.
@jordanmorgan10 Jordan Morgan on x
The thing I genuinely don't understand about this stance is that Fortnite does crazy dollars on both PlayStation, Nintendo and Xbox - all of which operate just like the App Store as far as I can tell. Closed markets with their own payment gateways, so what's the difference? https…
@rvmix Atlas Remix on x
Fortnite is only available on varying Samsung devices that are capable of running the game and have GALAXY Store installed. This is the only option for mobile players left. https://twitter.com/...
@fortnitegame Fortnite on x
Epic Games has filed legal papers in response to Apple, read more here: https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/ ...
@fortnitegame Fortnite on x
Epic Games has defied the App Store Monopoly. In retaliation, Apple is blocking Fortnite from a billion devices. Visit https://fn.gg/... and join the fight to stop 2020 from becoming “1984” https://twitter.com/...
@pkafka Peter Kafka on x
Spotify, which has had a long-running battle with Apple and filed an antitrust complaint of its own, weighs in on Epic v Apple. Spoiler: Spotify supports Epic. https://twitter.com/...
@timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x
Finally, there's nothing wrong with fighting about money. You work hard to earn this stuff. When you spent it, the way it's divided determines whether your money funds the creation of games or is taken by middlemen who use their power to separate gamers from game creators.
@tomwarren Tom Warren on x
Apple has finally met its Fortnite match. This well orchestrated Epic Games stunt is all about forcing Apple to change and getting regulators in the US and EU to listen. Here's my thoughts: https://www.theverge.com/... https://twitter.com/...
@competitionprof Nicolas Petit on x
Takes on Epic v Apple and Epic v Google. Some antitrust friends were dismissive. Nothing to see there other than a revenue sharing dispute in which competition law has nothing to do. I disagree. 1/n https://www.theverge.com/...
@timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x
Today, Apple said Epic is seeking a special deal, but that's not true. We're fighting for open platforms and policy changes equally benefiting all developers. And it'll be a hell of a fight! https://twitter.com/...
@albertwenger Albert Wenger on x
The battle over the power of app stores has finally been fully engaged (post here from 2014 https://continuations.com/...) https://twitter.com/...
@balajis @balajis on x
The win/win move may be for Apple to take a stake in the most successful companies in the App Store in return for discounting their fees. The prospect of going from 30% to 0% would be such a lift to the stock price of these companies that it might pay Apple back immediately. http…
@mgsiegler M.G. Siegler on x
The actual cut part is secondary. It's more so about re-writing and re-thinking the App Store rules for 2020, not 2010. Everything has changed in world and in this space. https://500ish.com/...
@radicalbytes Jonathan McIntosh on x
Epic is an extremely exploitative company but Apple is running a monopolistic extortion racket with its app store. So in this case we want Epic to win. https://twitter.com/...
@esportslaw Bryce Blum on x
Random, off the cuff thoughts on the Epic Games complaint v Apple. I'm writing these as I read, so it'll be stream of consciousness 1. This was written w/ far more than just the suit in mind. It tells a compelling story intended for public consumption. https://cdn2.unrealengine.c…
@josephfcox Joseph Cox on x
This is amazing. Epic had a lawsuit all ready to go. Baited Apple to remove the app; files this antitrust stuff straight away. https://twitter.com/...
@kt_so_it_goes @kt_so_it_goes on x
congrats 2020 after avoiding learning about whatever the hell fortnite is for so long you've forced me into taking their side https://twitter.com/...
@stevekovach Steve Kovach on x
Dramatic play here. Epic had a lawsuit ready to go if Apple kicked Fortnite out of the App Store https://www.cnbc.com/...
@slasher Rod Breslau on x
Epic baits Apple into kicking them off the app store and has a lawsuit with an ad mocking them ready to premiere in game with the entire Fortnite+gaming community behind them 10/10 bait https://twitter.com/...
@nickwingfield Nick Wingfield on x
Somewhere inside Google right now, I'd wager there is a team of lawyers and others with sweaty fingers hovering above a “delete app” button on the Google Play Fortnite page. https://twitter.com/...
@kfury Kevin Fox on x
I don't think Epic Games is going to win this battle royale with Apple.
@willsmith @willsmith on x
@andrearene Do I care that the company that is worth $17B wants a better deal from the $2T company? Not really? But I do want the indie teams who are making cool stuff and just trying to survive to have a better deal. And I don't think Apple or Google will listen to any of them w…
@hardyluski Hardy on x
“Twitter for iPhone” XDDDD https://twitter.com/...
@eringriffith Erin Griffith on x
this one is gonna be a doozy - Apple banned Fortnite and parent co Epic Games is suing over it https://www.nytimes.com/...
@nickwingfield Nick Wingfield on x
Delete button PUSHED https://www.theverge.com/... https://twitter.com/...
@timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x
At the most basic level, we're fighting for the freedom of people who bought smartphones to install apps from sources of their choosing, the freedom for creators of apps to distribute them as they choose, and the freedom of both groups to do business directly.
@markgurman Mark Gurman on x
Epic's Fornite has been removed from the App Store after they implemented direct payments, circumventing Apple's 30% cut.
@neilcybart Neil Cybart on x
Is this a joke? The more Epic says, the worse they look. https://twitter.com/...
@_chuckyc Charlie Chapman on x
Oh dang, they're not fighting for 30% of Fortnite sales, they're fighting for ~12% of everyone elses 😅 Makes more sense why they're prepping to spend this much money on this long shot battle with Apple. They smell the opportunity to become the Steam of mobile https://twitter.com/…
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on x
This is similar to the fallacy 'it's my computer so I should be free to do what I want It's bad for users for any random app to ask for a card It's easy for a big trusted brand to do that, but much less so for other developers Is removing that level playing field good for devs? h…
@stevekovach Steve Kovach on x
Why does Apple take more heat on its App Store policies than Google? Simple. People spend A LOT more money on Apple's App Store. Here's what Fortnite $$$ looks like on iOS vs. Android. https://www.cnbc.com/... https://twitter.com/...
@bgurley Bill Gurley on x
I wrote this about the recent battle between Apple and Epic. https://abovethecrowd.com/...
@reckless Nilay Patel on x
The law firm representing Epic / Fortnite in its antitrust case against Apple and Google also defended Qualcomm against the FTC's antitrust case and Amex in 2018's huge Supreme Court antitrust case. (And won both.) Safe bet they know what's possible under current law.
@gibiz GamesIndustry on x
In the last 30 days, App Store players spent $43.4 million on Fortnite, while the Google Play audience spent just $3.3 million https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ ...
@fmpone @fmpone on x
“Morality is when I get the exact business outcome I want.” 😇 https://twitter.com/...
@jstoff @jstoff on x
Epic stands to make millions more *per week* if they skirt Apple's terms from Fortnite alone. Altruism is not Epic's motivation to spend this much cash on a lawsuit, it's a desire for new revenue growth. https://twitter.com/...
@charlesarthur Charles Arthur on x
@CompetitionProf problem: the “mobile” industry in this case includes Nintendo (Switch, on which Fortnite is also available), and the market for this game extends to game consoles and PCs. In that perspective, Apple and Google look more like retailers who charge higher markups.
@aydenpanhuyzen Ayden Panhuyzen on x
This. I really hate seeing people say “why should I care? It's just 2 huge co's battling over money.” Epic is fighting for what indie devs have been complaining about for years. The minute someone with the money and reach to effectively do so joins in, we should just ignore it? h…
@reneritchie Rene Ritchie on x
TIL Sony owns 1.4% of Epic. (Tencent owns 40%.) https://twitter.com/...
@alexhern Alex Hern on x
@charlesarthur @benthompson One reason I think Epic has a really good case compared to a lot of others is that they passed the discount on. American monopoly law is laser focused on cost to consumer, and Epic can now explicitly point to a case where the consumer is paying more in…
@tailosivetech @tailosivetech on x
Just wanna remind everyone a 30% revenue cut on platforms is incredibly standard. In case you didn't know what YouTube takes from its creators. Epic Games on their own Store takes 12% of revenue (but not 0 like they were pitching with their vbucks in-app purchase) https://twitter…
@minovskyarticle Minovsky on x
It's astounding how quickly massive corporations adapted to mobilizing their online fanbases against each other over contract disputes. Sony and Disney's battle over Spider-Man walked so Epic vs Apple could run.
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on x
If you follow the logic of Epic's argument, iOS wouldn't just have Android's security model - iOS & Android would have the Windows security model.
@therikeys Riley Murdock on x
But what they're trying to do with these lawsuits (change the industry standard 30% platform cut) is good. Now here's the important part: you can think Epic is bad, as an entity, and still think what they're DOING is good. But people want to either HATE them or LOVE them.
@gregorymcfadden Gregory McFadden on x
Steve said it best. If the Apple store rules were really that unprofitable, the market would take care of itself by boycotting Apple and moving to another platform. The problem? A competitor would swoop in and develop an app/game for the app store to fill the void. Competition. h…
@gameovergreggy Greg Miller on x
I'm seeing a lot of people say stuff like “Why should I cheer for Epic; they're already rich.” Which, of course, is true, but I think misses one of the points of why they're doing this. Namely, they're the only ones big enough to do this and actually make a difference. THREAD
@jimsterling @jimsterling on x
We should remember everything Epic is currently saying about Apple, just in case Epic ever gets that defacto monopoly it's angling for. We'll see how their stance on anti-corporate freedom fighting holds up.
@tnkgrl Myriam Joire on x
@RDRv3 So while there's an obvious control/money angle to this Epic vs. Google/Apple battle, there's also a technical reason for this fight. I fully expect Valve, Microsoft, and others to follow in Epic's footsteps here. It's really video games industry vs. Apple/Google.
@durov Pavel Durov on x
@FortniteGame As a fan of Fortnite (and freedom), I fully support Epic Games in their fight against Apple. The fact that users and developers have been allowing Apple to hold them in digital slavery for over 12 years is an insult to humanity.
@leonlush Leon Lush on x
Multi billion dollar companies fighting is fun in theory, but watching rich nerds try and out litigate each other is lame af. I want Tim Cook vs Tim Sweeney in the octagon, 3 rounds, loin cloths and war paint, medieval weapons allowed, last one breathing takes all.
@slasher Rod Breslau on x
if anyone was wondering, Valve and Gabe Newell are fully aligned on the side of Epic Games against Apple and their control of the ecosystem. from an interview with Gabe earlier this year Gaben x Sweeney united https://twitter.com/...
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on x
Today, any developer on earth uses the same safe, trusted app store and payment system. The smallest developer you never heard of is on the same playing field as Epic. Apple's intermediate layer means you don't have to trust the dev. Epic wants to remove that.
@exponisity @exponisity on x
@Techmeme @tomwarren On the other side of the mirror, look at how Epic runs its store and at how Epic does not allow developers to set up stores to sell plug-ins to Fortnite and other games for free to compete with Epic.
@samerkamal Samer Kamal on x
If the politicians are not fixing it, we will. https://twitter.com/...
@a_webster Andrew Webster on x
i cant get over the illustration on this piece https://www.theverge.com/...
@pkafka Peter Kafka on x
Epic Games' internal name for its campaign against Apple and Google is “Project Liberty”. Here's MS Word file for the complaint they filed against Google yesterday, after being kicked out of Google's app store. https://twitter.com/...
@counternotions Kontra on x
2020: Epic Games 2004: RealNetworks https://www.techhive.com/...
@bgurley Bill Gurley on x
Another thought on Epic/Apple. Yesterday one of my children wanted to listen to an audible book on drive. In order to purchase I had to create a WiFi hotspot to my Apple laptop. The fact that purchas on a laptop OK and phone not is truly arbitrary.
@rdrv3 @rdrv3 on x
if you want to understand how the gamer world sees the Fortnite / Apple controversy, I think this Twitter moment one-liner sums it up https://twitter.com/...
@sriramk Sriram Krishnan on x
I saw first hand at MSFT in the mid-00s the harm caused by having developers root against you. Took almost a decade and Satya's ascension to recover from. Apple may not be able to measure yet the long term impact of having so many developers upset with them.
@jb_firebrand @jb_firebrand on x
The App Store and Google Play take a staggering 30% revenue cut of purchases through their stores. To put that into perspective, Roblox game developers get closer to 20%. #FreeFortnite #FreeRoblox https://twitter.com/...
@neilcybart Neil Cybart on x
The new strategy for going up against the App Store: 1) Break the rules...visibly and willingly. 2) Try to garner goodwill in the press and tech punditry world. Have people focus on Washington going after Apple. 3) Rely on straw man arguments to back up your position.
@lucas7yoshi @lucas7yoshi on x
Epic will maintain v13.40 for IOS users who have it downloaded, but they will not be able to update or access the new battle pass due to it being pulled from the App Store.
@vicious696 Parris on x
This needed to happen, if you want Apple to amend their App Store policies it will take companies like Epic, Microsoft, Nvidia, Activison, etc to use their influence on the gaming landscape to force change I want cloud gaming, Fortnite and Call of Duty on iOS demand change 😡 http…
@briannawu Brianna Wu on x
And...Apple yanked it from the App Store. The antitrust hearing was not even two weeks ago. 🙄 I think there was an argument in 2008 for Apple's aggressive App Store policies being better for consumers. I don't think there's a credible argument today. https://twitter.com/...

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