Discussion

• Vox Rebecca Heilweil on x

  Apple shut down a voting app in Russia. That should worry everyone.

• @natynettle @natynettle on x

  BREAKING: @Apple and @Google just simultaneously pulled Russian opposition voting guide app on election morning. It gets worse. THREAD 1/ Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @natynettle @natynettle on x

  3/ Russia has tried everything to get the app pulled. A spurious trademark lawsuit, legal threats... @Google and @Apple knew exactly what was going on. And, until this morning, they resisted. Story: @craigtimberg @RobynDixon__ @ReedAlbergotti https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ... h…

• @tolmasky Francisco Tolmasky on x

  Just like during the Hong Kong protests, Apple has again been pressured to remove an app for political reasons. This time a tactical voting app in Russia. Without side-loading, the @AppStore becomes a single bottleneck for governments to censor dissent. https://www.reuters.com/..…

• @natynettle @natynettle on x

  4/ Worse: after pulling the real voting guide app, @Apple is *keeping* impostor apps. Russians headed to the polls are now unwittingly installing apps that may put them in immediate danger. https://twitter.com/...

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  Apple's defense of removing voting guides is that they have to obey the law of the nations they operate in. And yet if legislators demand they expand their image scanning corpus, they say they will refuse. They intend to break the law in that case, but not this one? https://twitt…

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  Apple spent the entire summer telling the public that they were confident they could resist government pressure, when defending their CSAM scanning system. Today they're pulling voting guides from the Russian App Store. What changed in a month? https://twitter.com/...

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  Maybe “the Internet” shouldn't be two app stores. https://twitter.com/...

• @natynettle @natynettle on x

  2/ The app @Google & @Apple just shut down helped Russians that disagree with Putin find candidates to vote for. The very definition of democratic process. Both companies knew it. For once, Putin was afraid too. Story: @antontroian @INechepurenko https://www.nytimes.com/... https…

• @maddow Rachel Maddow on x

  I know there's been a lot of cojones discussion on this website this week. Here's some news about the opposite of that: “Russia demanded this month that Apple and Google remove the app from their stores...” And so they did. https://www.reuters.com/...

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  This is why all general computing platforms must be open platforms. If iOS were open, Apple's decision not to carry an app would just be a store stocking decision. By blocking all competing stores, Apple has made itself a global censor on behalf of all foreign governments. https:…

• @reuters @reuters on x

  Google and Apple have removed jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny's tactical voting app from their stores, his team said, after Russia accused the U.S. tech firms of meddling in its internal affairs https://www.reuters.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @paulg Paul Graham on x

  Monopolies and dictatorships lock together like the two halves of the yin/yang symbol. https://twitter.com/...

• @tolmasky Francisco Tolmasky on x

  One thing that baffles me every time this happens, is that I wouldn't *want* this responsibility if I was Apple. I'd want to stay distraction free, focused on fun stuff like AR or new iPhone cameras, not getting needlessly sucked into heavy decisions about international politics.

• @mcfaul Michael McFaul on x

  If you are going to blame the US — aka Google and Apple — for meddling in Russia's election, then you also have to blame South Korea — aka Samsung tv - for providing a platform to distribute United Russia propaganda on tv. Same thing.

• @neilcybart Neil Cybart on x

  @SpencerDailey @reneritchie The issue with preinstalled apps on iPhones sold in Russia is a great real-world example of this topic. It also provides the nuance that is lacking here. Apple put their foot down and Russia backed down. https://www.aboveavalon.com/ ... https://twitter…

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  @ByteForByte @reneritchie Of course it's an “attention-jack.” Apple made a claim in August that implied they would disregard the law of any land that demanded they add content to their corpus. But this isn't their corporate policy and effectively isn't true. The news today is a c…

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  @reneritchie ... What I would be relevant here is a serious argument that Apple could say “no” to a legislated request by the Russia to add content to the scanning database, without risking shutdown in Russia. I don't think that argument exists. And so what Apple is claiming is “…

• @tolmasky Francisco Tolmasky on x

  As @TimSweeneyEpic points out, if iOS was as open as just about every computing platform before it, this same set of circumstances would be unfortunate, sure, but it wouldn't be nearly as effective, and it would be much more justifiable by Apple as just a “business decision.” htt…

• @neilcybart Neil Cybart on x

  @SpencerDailey @reneritchie And as Rene pointed out, that's an issue that people can discuss and debate. That's not what our objection is about. Instead, connecting this latest issue with CSAM detection in such a way as to very strongly imply that there is no difference between t…

• @benlovejoy @benlovejoy on x

  Much as I wish Apple would stand up more in such cases, I have to say if it had been my call in this case, I'd have to protect my staff ... :-( https://twitter.com/...

• @evan_greer Evan Greer on x

  What's extra messed up is that by maintaining the App Store monopoly / censorship choke point Apple is actively putting their employees in physical danger. If governments knew blocking stuff from the app store didn't matter that much they wouldn't be incentivized to do this stuff

• @tolmasky Francisco Tolmasky on x

  We're past the point where giving Apple the benefit of the doubt can be interpreted as anything other than willful ignorance from a place of Western privilege. These aren't hypotheticals, we already have examples of Apple's policies failing people in other countries. 1/🧵

• @evacide Eva on x

  Who's that being Repression's Little Helper in Russia? It's Google and Apple. https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @neilcybart Neil Cybart on x

  @lwaynehill @reneritchie My rationale: 1) Examine Apple's CSAM detection apparatus. 2) Examine Apple's multi-year approach to governments and the App Store. Doing 1 & 2 will make it clear that such tweets are disingenuous since they are designed to misinform causal readers.

• @benedictevans Benedict Evans on x

  The great thing about China is there are lots of app stores and sideloading on android phones there, so the government can't control what you do on your device. oh, wait... https://twitter.com/...

• @neilcybart Neil Cybart on x

  @SpencerDailey @reneritchie And the preintalled apps in Russia situation unfolded months before CSAM detection became public. There has been no change in Apple's stance on this topic.

• @reneritchie Rene Ritchie on x

  @matthew_d_green @ByteForByte The sensationalism does a profound disservice to the discussion and is indistinguishable from disinformation While removing an app from a cloud store is problematic, it is also different in kind to on-device search and seizure of userland data Not ev…

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  No, this isn't a statement about Russian politics. The scenario has been repeated over and over in dozens of territories. It can go the other way too, with Apple making unilateral store decisions that influence political discourse in other countries, as social networks do.

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  @reneritchie ... And even if you answer “it's on the device so Apple will fight it,” what does that mean when you're fighting in Russia?

• @repkenbuck Rep. Ken Buck on x

  Does anyone honestly believe breaking up Big Tech is somehow bad for America's national security? Apple and Google are literally siding with the Putin regime now. Who needs enemies when America has ‘friends’ like these two? https://twitter.com/...

• @tolmasky Francisco Tolmasky on x

  Unlike with the Mac, a platform that was already known for its security, they've specifically taken on the mantle of *sole moral arbiters* of all app-related content on the platform, guaranteeing they'd be at the center of any digital political controversy in the future. Why?

• @evan_greer Evan Greer on x

  Spoke to @voxdotcom about how Apple's restrictive and authoritarian app store policies are a human rights catastrophe, and their latest move — censoring a pro-democracy app at the behest of the Russian government — is a perfect example https://www.vox.com/...

• @reneritchie Rene Ritchie on x

  @TimSweeneyEpic They can't be reconciled. But that's not specific to CSAM, nor is it new, nor only an issue with China or Russia. France wants data repatriation. Australia wants to end encryption. Maybe the US. Apple and other companies will have very hard choices to make when th…

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x

  Tech media continually argues that governments should regulate big tech then complain when tech companies comply with the laws of the countries they're in. The reality is that “regulating big tech” is a meaningless phrase as people don't actually want it. https://www.vox.com/...

• @eff @eff on x

  This is why human rights advocates are rightly concerned that Apple's promise to stand up to government demands is not always realistic, whether it's taking down apps or expanding the scanning and censorship system the company announced last month. https://www.eff.org/...

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x

  I wonder if the Microsoft Teams sales team uses what's happened at Apple to sell against Slack? Almost every story about unrest at Apple talks about how Slack's been instrumental in organizing the dissenters. No wonder they want people back in the office. https://www.nytimes.com/…

• @benlovejoy @benlovejoy on x

  @reneritchie @9to5mac You're right that Apple giving in to repressive local laws is consistent. What is new today is they just gave into blackmail too.

• @riana_crypto Riana Pfefferkorn on x

  Apropos of Apple & Google's protest-voting app removals to Comply With Local Law Wherever They Do Business (Russia), I wrote this in May 2020 re: client-side scanning. Tech cos.' overseas offices are just hostage situations that haven't happened yet. https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu…

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  @LibSkrat It is corporate policy for Apple to obey the law of the lands they operate in. Why anyone ever let them get away with this statement baffles me.

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  @VirtuallyTebo ... I really don't understand what distinction you're making. If Russia passes a law that says “providers must scan for terrorism-related content”, is Apple going to say no? How do you distinguish such a law from the laws they have around Apple's App Store?

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  @reneritchie ... If you want to bring me a serious legal argument, by all means bring it. I'm skeptical that you can. Which means we're arguing about whether Apple will be courageous enough to break the law. I think today's news is highly relevant to that question. You don't. 🤷‍♂…

• @mcfaul Michael McFaul on x

  Has Apple or Google explained their decisions yet? https://twitter.com/...

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  @reneritchie How do you reconcile Apple's statement that it has to comply with all laws everywhere it does business (made under oath by Tim Cook) with its position that it wouldn't expand its client-side content scanning and police reporting even if required by foreign laws?

• @pt Parker on x

  But if you're going to be Free Speech Guy, maybe don't suggest the government compel corporate speech here to advantage certain political groups that are disadvantaged by their own behavior. Make Logically Consistent Policy Positions Great Again. https://twitter.com/...

• @pt Parker on x

  I am unclear if people are being purposefully obtuse or really don't understand the difference between complying with censorious government laws and exercising corporate free speech speech rights, but these in fact opposites. Don't be that guy. https://twitter.com/...

• @willoremus Will Oremus on x

  Apple and Google stood up to Vladimir Putin's attempts to censor a pro-opposition voting app... until they both caved and banned it. The notion of US tech giants exporting democratic values to authoritarian markets is taking a beating these days. https://www.washingtonpost.com/ .…

• @vladsavov Vlad Savov on x

  Apple and Google getting a thumbs up from Putin. Charming. https://twitter.com/...

• @christogrozev Christo Grozev on x

  Putin's spokesman applauds @Apple and @Google's deleting of @navalny-linked apps. https://twitter.com/...

• @reneritchie Rene Ritchie on x

  Beyond concerning but also such a disingenuous attention-jack Apple has historically removed apps from the App Store, like VPN apps in China. CSAM has nothing to do with that then or now Google exited China, is complying with Russia Complex issues deserve genuine discussion https…

• @keleftheriou Kosta Eleftheriou on x

  Apple taking down legitimate apps while leaving scams up? I feel like I've seen this movie before, but here the stakes are much higher... https://twitter.com/...

• @jason_kint Jason Kint on x

  As press run around the country risking their freedom and lives to bring truth and witness to the world, Google and Apple rolled. https://twitter.com/...

• @fosspatents Florian Mueller on x

  I'm not concerned about Apple acting as a censor on behalf of governments (wherever in the world that may be). That's beyond Apple's control. I don't want Apple to disallow apps *even though* they are lawful in a given jurisdiction, absent app store diversity & true competition. …

• @davidakaye David Kaye on x

  excellent @natynettle thread below putin's goals have long been evident. the govt's demand that #Google & #Apple remove a pro-navalny voting guide is clearly unlawful under international human rights law. this is also russia's hostage-taking policy coming into its own. https://tw…

• @marietjeschaake Marietje Schaake on x

  I never want to hear any nonsensical arguments about free speech, democracy, openness and doing no harm from the Silicon Valley companies that end up bending to dictators at a crucial moment ↘️ https://twitter.com/...

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  🤬 Apple justified the decision under a Moscow court ruling in June that declared Navalny's foundation an “extremist organisation”, according to a screenshot https://twitter.com/...

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  “This is a crucial moment for Russia. It looks like big tech companies are starting to co-operate even more closely with the authorities' repression.” @Apple and @Google drop Navalny app after Kremlin piles on pressure https://www.ft.com/...

• @natynettle @natynettle on x

  6/ @apple, I can't believe I need to say this but even in Russia, voting is not criminal behavior. Pic: Apple's correspondence to the App developers (via @christogrozev ) https://twitter.com/...

• @robpegoraro Rob Pegoraro on x

  If Apple somehow breaks out of its habitual silence to discuss this, maybe they can address this report of fake @navalny apps remaining in the Russian App Store? https://twitter.com/...

• @mathewi Mathew Ingram on x

  Extremely disappointed (but not surprised) to see Google and Apple remove this Russian protest app from their app stores https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @evan_greer Evan Greer on x

  NEW: You couldn't ask for a more crystal clear example of how Apple's monopoly practices and restrictive, authoritarian app store policies create a choke point for government censorship & human rights violations Just allow side-loading. It's pretty simple https://www.nytimes.com/…

• @hari Hari Sreenivasan on x

  Navalny app removed from online stores as Russian polls open https://apnews.com/... by Daria Litvinova & @chanman What concentration of power looks like. https://twitter.com/...

• @asluhn Alec Luhn on x

  To my previous point: Google says Moscow told it specific individuals who could face prosecution https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @rodrigocampos Rodrigo Campos on x

  The app, devised by allies of jailed Kremlin critic Alexei #Navalny, gives people detailed recommendations on who to vote for in an effort to thwart the electoral chances of the ruling United #Russia party which supports President Vladimir #Putin. https://www.reuters.com/...

• @natynettle @natynettle on x

  @Apple 5/ Clearly, @Apple and @Google took this decision under pressure. But the companies owe the Russian people an explanation.

• @juliadavisnews Julia Davis on x

  The app disappeared just as voting got underway in the three-day parliamentary election, in which Navalny's team was hoping to use its app — called “Navalny” — to consolidate the opposition vote in each of Russia's 225 electoral districts. https://twitter.com/...

• @oliviasolon Olivia Solon on x

  Looks like tech companies' human rights policies evaporate when the Kremlin arbitrarily categorizes the opposition leader's organization as an extremist group https://www.nbcnews.com/...

• @robpegoraro Rob Pegoraro on x

  Good morning to everybody except the fascist crooks in the Kremlin. (The executives in Cupertino and Mountain View who appeased Putin's goons under duress should not feel great about themselves either.) https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @valeriein140 Valerie Hopkins on x

  An app designed by Russian activists to coordinate protest voting in this weekend's elections disappeared from Google & Apple app stores after Ru authorities issued a direct threat of criminal prosecution against staff in the country, naming individuals https://www.nytimes.com/..…

• @mattyglesias Matthew Yglesias on x

  This is not the globalization we were promised https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @reuters @reuters on x

  Russia threatened U.S. social media firms with sizeable fines if they fail to delete content Moscow deems illegal and demanded Apple and Google stop allegedly meddling in its internal affairs on the eve of parliamentary elections https://www.reuters.com/... https://twitter.com/..…