Discussion

• @zeroxjf Johnny on x

  Fable: Fable 5's safety measures flagged this message for cybersecurity or biology topics. They may flag safe, normal content as well. Switched to Opus 4.8. Ok fine, Opus 4.8 it is. Opus 4.8: API Error: Claude Code is unable to respond to this request, which appears to

• @alexjplaskett Alex Plaskett on x

  Fable seems totally unusable currently due to the over zealous rejection classifier, even for non related to cyber security. Can't see why anyone would use this over Opus.

• @mehulmpt Mehul Mohan on x

  Hey sorry to say this but Fable is useless the moment you mention cybersecurity, security audit, vulnerability, or just “help me make my app secure” What is up with these massive guardrails bigger than Great Wall of China

• @chompie1337 @chompie1337 on x

  It rejects any request that could be tangentially cyber related. Even innocuous tasks like reading a blog post.

• @ksimback Kevin Simback on x

  A theory on why the super strict guardrails with Fable It's all about the revenue and satisfying capital markets ahead of the IPO Most expectations peg Anthropic at $100b run rate by year end which is 10x YoY To hit $100b run rate, they need enterprises to spend big - it won't

• @behi_sec Behi on x

  Don't get too excited about Fable 5, guys. It blocks basically every cybersecurity-related request. [image]

• @fabknowledge @fabknowledge on x

  When Fable works it's brilliant, but the unilateral guardrails makes me frustrated beyond belief. I have a folder of health information for my fiancée with like 100 days of oura health data, a hundred lab tests, transcripts of doctor visits and like way more for a super

• @scobleizer Robert Scoble on x

  “Misanthropic.” I've never seen the AI community so angry at a major new model release. I asked my AI (an agent that @blevlabs made for me) to gather all the backlash. +++++++++++ THE BACKLASH AGAINST CLAUDE FABLE 5'S RESTRICTIONS The best analysis of why this matters:

• @tomieinlove Tomie on x

  OpenAI should release its next Fable-class model with no guardrails at all. If there are consequences then sama can use them aura farm like oppenheimer did

• r/ClaudeCode r on reddit

  Fable refusing EVERY request related to cybersecurity at all, this is insane

• r/ClaudeAI r on reddit

  Had Fable 5 run an in-depth cybersecurity audit of all my code and got this message...

• @tomwarren Tom Warren on x

  scoop: Microsoft has restricted employees from using Anthropic's new Claude Fable 5 model in GitHub Copilot, because of data retention concerns. Microsoft's legal teams are evaluating Anthropic's new data retention changes. Full details 👇https://www.theverge.com/ ...

• @deryatr_ Derya Unutmaz on x

  The word “cancer” is flagged as a biosecurity risk by Claude Fable 5! I also tried to code a website on cancer mutations & Fable 5 was immediately removed from my list! @AnthropicAI will probably soon ban me for such dangerous prompts! FYI @karpathy “little trigger happy Fable” […

• @0xballoonlover @0xballoonlover on x

  anthropic won't let you use fable for biology, chemistry, ai research, or anything that accelerates human progress. that makes it the perfect tool for developing blockchains

• @tautologer @tautologer on x

  i don't really understand the critiques of Anthropic tbh. assume they are currently doing their best and not sandbagging things like safety classifiers. what would you have them do differently? please think about first- and second-order effects before you reply

• @iruletheworldmo @iruletheworldmo on x

  what if i told you... hello sammy if you haven't figured out by now that they have a model waiting to crush fable on thursday i can't help you. it will be cheap, it will be fast, it won't be gated. enjoy chat. have a great wednesday. [image]

• @blancheminerva Stella Biderman on x

  It's super weird to me that there's so much discourse about whether Anthropic is “consistent.” Anthropic is choosing to make decisions that make the world a significantly worse and potentially more dangerous place. That's what you should criticize them for.

• @deryatr_ Derya Unutmaz on x

  @bcherny Enjoy what Boris? I am not even allowed to use Fable 5 with memories on! Apparently the model thinks I am a biosecurity risk, though I had been certified to work in biosecurity level 3 labs! Not a single Anthropic person has tried to reach out to help either! [image]

• @banteg @banteg on x

  if you want another example of safety overreach, claude fable 5 refuses completely benign tasks like analyzing bloodwork.

• @willccbb Will Brown on x

  @tautologer it is the first publicly available model that i am explicitly not allowed to use for my work, because anthropic holds the view that the work i do to facilitate open model research is harmful. capability and alignment research are coupled. anthropic wants to be the onl…

• @teknium @teknium on x

  What's crazy to me is that Fable is blocked from life sciences broadly, nerfed even if you get passed the classifiers and filter level blocks. The whole point of AGI/ASI is to cure all diseases. Everything else is just nice to haves. But Anthropic wants to close off that path.

• @bcmerchant Brian Merchant on bluesky

  MYTHOS is so powerful that it must be protected by strict guardrails that prevent anyone from ever learning whether or not it's actually powerful at all [embedded post]

• @lorenzofb Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on bluesky

  NEW: Cybersecurity researchers are not happy about the guardrails on Anthropic's new model Fable.  —  Researchers say that the new LLM basically blocks anything related to cybersecurity, including code reviews and prompts asking for help writing secure code.

• @jeremyphoward Jeremy Howard on x

  Easy solution to slow down recursive AI self improvement: - The lab with the top-ranked model must agree THEY must not use it for working on frontier AI - But everyone else should have access to it. By definition, this means the frontier doesn't advance.

• @semianalysis_ @semianalysis_ on x

  BREAKING NEWS: Anthropic's latest model will NOT help you if it thinks your ML research/ML engineering is interesting, and/or will secretly degrade its IQ so that the average engineer won't notice. We are already seeing Anthropic's latest model's moderation filters our GPU [image…

• @clementdelangue Clem on x

  Concentration of power, capabilities and economic wealth is the biggest risk in AI. We need open science and open-source more than ever!

• @dan_jeffries1 Daniel Jeffries on x

  @Scobleizer The fury is real and what all of us in the open community have been saying for years and yet regular folks don't get it yet because nothing they care about is restricted or taken away for “safety.” They will care a LOT in the future when AI is integrated into every as…

• @bneyshabur Behnam Neyshabur on x

  This marks the beginning of a significant phase transition in the behavior of frontier AI labs and their relationship with the rest of the world 🧵

• @kimmonismus @kimmonismus on x

  Anthropic's new Fable 5 safeguards are fascinating. When the model is used for frontier LLM development, it apparently does not simply refuse or warn the user. Instead, it quietly limits its own effectiveness through techniques like prompt modification, steering vectors, and

• @gneubig Graham Neubig on x

  First they came for the model builders... I feel we're getting a glimpse of a future where AI is only provided to a privileged few, and that's not a future I want to live in.

• @arthurctellis Arthur Tellis on x

  Seeing a lot of Fable safeguards hate on the timeline, but “what did y'all think [AI safety] meant? vibes? papers? essays?” The reality is that there are real tradeoffs in AI safety. Anthropic deserves credit for aggressive resolution of these tradeoffs in favor of safeguards

• @linusmixson Linus Mixson on x

  Dario personally, and Anthropic as a whole, have been extremely straightforward about wanting a monopoly for a long, long time. Unfortunate that it's taken people so long to catch on to their public statements.

• @enoreyes Eno Reyes on x

  https://x.com/...

• @gergelyorosz Gergely Orosz on x

  Oh great - Anthropic assumes Semi Analysis is developing a competing LLM and so it dumbs down their model for them, because Semi Analysis does analysis on cutting-edge GPU research. Such a weird timeline to be in. Anthropic trying to limit competition limits many others...

• @bubbleboi Bubble Boi on x

  Have canceled my team subscription for Claude Pro. Idc how good that model is, it's not good enough for me to support people who actively stifle innovation and gate keep knowledge that they didn't even create.

• @dan_jeffries1 Daniel Jeffries on x

  When you hear AI “safety” you should hear “censorship” and “control” instead. All of us surveilled and spied by safeguards of loving grace. Today it's intelligent Terms of Service control. You can't do AI research. Can't ask this question about your kid's biology homework.

• @bneyshabur Behnam Neyshabur on x

  Working on AI for cancer? Sorry, I can't help you. Working on AI for Alzheimer's Disease? Sorry, I'm becoming a bit dumb when it comes to the AI part of it. Why don't everyone stop trying to do AI for Science & Tech? We can do it all gradually. You just have to be patient.

• @santhproject @santhproject on x

  the old @karpathy would never support a company that fucks other llm researchers. Were the stock benefits that good?

• @sriramk Sriram Krishnan on x

  just to state the obvious: think there's a collison course between those who believe research and science should be open and those who believe we are in an accelerating singularity curve. I have many smart friends who have believed both for a while but seeing more and more their

• @tunguz Bojan Tunguz on x

  Starting to suspect that Anthropic's putative security and safety considerations are largely posturing and performative.

• @clementdelangue Clem on x

  In good faith and with no judgment (mistakes happen), I truly hope that Anthropic will hear the feedback and change course on this. Anthropic is a company that has been raising awareness about AI manipulation which is a very important topic! You don't want to go down as the

• @askalphaxiv @askalphaxiv on x

  As believers of open research, we are disappointed to see Anthropic silently degrading Fable 5 for AI development “Any topic related to building pretraining pipelines, distributed training infrastructure, or ML accelerator design... may have limited effectiveness through Claude […

• @hlntnr Helen Toner on x

  I mostly agree with this, but it does seem like a bad and trust-damaging move to degrade performance on AI R&D tasks silently, rather than handling like other topics of concern (warning box + bumping the chat down to a less capable model)

• @gergelyorosz Gergely Orosz on x

  Things I really dislike about Fable: 1. Anthropic collects my prompt history, stores it, and does whatever they want with it for 30 days. No opt-out 2. They can nerf their most expensive model without telling me, billing me the same amount, wasting my time. Whenever they want

• @nabeelqu Nabeel S. Qureshi on x

  Interesting tidbit from the Mythos/Fable system card: Anthropic are invisibly nerfing any requests that target frontier LLM development. [image]

• @tszzl Roon on x

  the omohundro drives point towards sophon stun locking the adversaries: this is some real end game stuff

• @suhail @suhail on x

  I would like to +1 that this is a very bad policy. Respond with a refusal and deal with the fall out but invisible NERFing is super uncool. [image]

• @deanwball Dean W. Ball on x

  My friend and colleague @timhwang, for example, runs the Institute for a Christian Machine Intelligence, which relies on coding agents to replicate frontier AI alignment research papers but with Christianity-inspired experimental designs. Such work should be silently sabotaged?

• @giffmana Lucas Beyer on x

  Can you imagine the safety disaster if i speed up my input pipeline 2x??? Joke's on them my input pipeline is already prefect.

• @beffjezos @beffjezos on x

  This is anti-e/acc Diffusion of AI power is the only way we maintain safety This has always been our core thesis Huge gaps in AI power are the real danger

• @julien_c Julien Chaumond on x

  Very dystopian ngl

• @nabeelqu Nabeel S. Qureshi on x

  Will be *extremely* interesting if this is used for other capabilities. Right now it's just AI research. But suppose you nerf model outputs for drug discovery, or anything that results in highly valuable IP...

• @deanwball Dean W. Ball on x

  Degrading performance on ML research *without telling the user* is shockingly hostile and a terrible look. That could silently damage all sorts of work, including some of my own. Also the type of thing that could raise the eyebrows of antitrust enforcers worldwide.

• @garymarcus Gary Marcus on x

  Anthropic didn't just add guardrails to make Mythos safer; they added guardrails to protect their own IP. *Their own IP*. They are still as happy as fuck to build their AI on other people's IP.

• @yacinemtb Kache on x

  frontier coding abilities, as long as you're only working on react apps

• @beffjezos @beffjezos on x

  The real reason they held Mythos back wasn't for your safety, it was for their moat.

• @zephyr_z9 @zephyr_z9 on x

  Anthropic finessing again I'm pretty they are going to come out with a statement that they implemented it to deter China

• @latkins Lucas Atkins on x

  Btw this doesn't just make the model less useful it will nerf your code and tell you it's not. Like you legitimately cannot use this. And how are we to know whether it touches inference optimization or even harness engineering, if we're not alerted?

• @ziv_ravid Ravid Shwartz Ziv on x

  Wow, that is quite a bold move by Anthropic. I feel that companies will feel much less confident relying on their models because they can decide tomorrow that your use case is forbidden and you don't even know they changed the output.

• @zhaoran_wang Zhaoran Wang on x

  @sama may be greedy, but @DarioAmodei is starting to look genuinely dangerous... not only trying to make money but trying to monopolize “intelligence” and decide who gets to shape future of humanity! be wary of anyone who claims they can create a god, then insists only they

• @ethancaballero Ethan Caballero on x

  re: Claude Fable 5 intentionally silently nerfs itself when asked to do AI research. How does the nerf play out in practice? Does Fable 5 intentionally start injecting silent bugs everywhere? or does Fable 5 nerf itself in other way(s)? [image]

• @sporadica @sporadica on x

  can not for the life of me understand why Anthropic decided it would be honest about rerouting cyber+bio requests, but actively dishonest about rerouting LLM development requests??

• @nickadobos Nick Dobos on x

  Claude won't build new AI for you Singularity is here and its banned for the poors by ToS & safety filters lmfao

• @rasdani_ Daniel Auras on x

  this is the biggest wake-up call to protect and nourish open source AI if you don't build out sovereign and independent models+infra closed labs will patronize you to an insulting degree

• @yoavgo @yoavgo on x

  this is *totally* done because of deep concern for public safety, and not as an anti-competition move

• @daniellefong Danielle Fong on x

  to be honest, i'm so nervous about talking with fable, and it's kinda stuff like this. i hope my previous reasonings with the models don't make it as nervous as previous models or worse, but i fear the worst. maybe it will surprise me to the upside. [image]

• @natolambert Nathan Lambert on x

  The best part of all these Claude 5 Fable safety measures is I bet the jailbreaking community will still get past them, so the people doing open research in good faith don't get access to the best models but bad actors maybe can.

• @giffmana Lucas Beyer on x

  looool that's the “hey bigcos, we don't want you to catch up, but please keep paying us shitton” clause.

• @provisionalidea James Rosen-Birch on x

  I wonder if this counts as anticompetitive behaviour.

• @natolambert Nathan Lambert on x

  I don't want them to do this but it's totally in their right to do so. Makes the open frontier obviously more strategically valuable.

• @natolambert Nathan Lambert on x

  Labs starting to pull up the ladders on the ability to diffuse AI was inevitable. Doing it without telling the user is misaligned.

• @a_karvonen Adam Karvonen on x

  Another quite successful prediction by @DKokotajlo : Fable is intentionally nerfed for frontier ML research. This is within ~3 months of Daniel's prediction of Q1 2026 (made in 2023). Although I don't think Mythos is automating ML research to the same extent as his prediction. [i…

• @yacinemtb Kache on x

  trust & your brand is a long term thing being in the frontier is a short term thing note that the nerfing here is SILENT. meaning anthropic will SILENTLY NERF and give you WORSE ANSWERS without alerting you that's honestly demonic

• @yacinemtb Kache on x

  LMFAO this can't be real

• @eliebakouch Elie on x

  mythos will be bad ON PURPOSE on ai “frontier llm research” tasks, this is very very sad for the research community also the fact that this is un purpose not visible to the user is crazy [image]

• @hangsiin @hangsiin on x

  When Fable 5 is used for frontier LLM development, it does not notify the user and instead limits the model's capabilities through methods such as prompt modification, steering vectors, and PEFT. Anthropic estimated that this would affect approximately 0.03% of traffic. [image]

• Matthew Perrins Matthew Perrins on linkedin

  Just spent an hour with Claude Fable 5 working a backend API and iOS app OMG ! this thing is fantastically amazing !! …

• @LukaszOlejnik@mastodon.social Lukasz Olejnik on mastodon

  The release of AI model Fable 5 demonstrates capabilities to degrade quality by itself, adaptatively.  How does that go with competition policy?  If an AI model gives one company worse answers than another, how does that square with fair competition? https://jonready.com/...

• r/singularity r on reddit

  Anthropic purposely made its new Mythos-based models bad at AI research, and developers are fuming

• @deanwball Dean W. Ball on x

  I want to be clear that I'm not criticizing Fable for: 1. Pricing 2. The bio/cyber safeguards (yes they're overeager, but I can deal) 3. The 30-day retention policy These things all seem fine. It is solely the silent sabotage that creates an awful precedent to which I object.

• @dbreunig Drew Breunig on x

  The imperfect and awkward ways Anthropic is using to control how their models are used (with Fable now, OpenClaw a bit ago) is a great example of the imprecision of natural language as an interface. The best model can't differentiate a bio threat from an innocuous health or

• @natolambert Nathan Lambert on x

  Many AI leaders in the US accused Chinese LLMs of subtle manipulation of the user (without proof, but it's hard to prove). But then the leading American lab documented manipulation of their users. Can't make this up.

• @tunguz Bojan Tunguz on x

  Hear hear.

• @benthompson Ben Thompson on x

  @deanwball You did concede the point in the post I replied to, which is why I replied to it. I do tend to think that affording people one disagrees with more grace at the time of disagreement is probably prudent. To that end, setting aside pedantic points about whatever the origi…

• @deanwball Dean W. Ball on x

  @CharlieBull0ck @theojaffee I did not say it is obviously anti-competitive in the legal sense, I said it is obviously describable (a lawyer would say colorable) as anti-competitive, in both a legal sense, but much more importantly, in a broader sense. It's clearly anti-competitiv…

• @zooko @zooko on x

  Ouch. Can't disagree, and I'm speaking as someone who shares at least most of Dean's policy perspective. (And who loves Anthropic's products.)

• @rebeccamkern Rebecca Kern on x

  Raising potential antitrust concerns with Anthropic's change in safety policies and talk of becoming a public utility. Haven't seen this raised as an antitrust concern before 👇

• @benthompson Ben Thompson on x

  @deanwball Maybe folks who pushed back on Anthropic's positioning in the Department of War debate actually foresaw *exactly* this type of behavior? https://x.com/...

• @charliebull0ck Charlie Bullock on x

  @deanwball @theojaffee What's the argument for this being obviously “anti-competitive” (I assume you mean in an antitrust law sense?) If they were coordinating with other labs, then I would see the argument. But I've never seen it argued that it's unlawful for a company to unilat…

• @deanwball Dean W. Ball on x

  @benthompson hence why I conceded that exact point! nonetheless, the government was lying when they claimed Anthropic made these threats, as attested by the fact that they don't make those claims under oath. A suspicion does not justify the policy action the government took. and …

• r/ClaudeAI r on reddit

  Microsoft is restricting employees from using Claude Fable 5

• r/singularity r on reddit

  Microsoft restricts employees from using Claude Fable 5 model

• @mattparlmer @mattparlmer on x

  Anthropic people, you've got a couple days at most to mitigate the damage being done by your senior leadership and policy people, the stealth nerfing and data retention decisions are titanic fuckups that pose serious risks to both your technical pole position and your bags

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on bluesky

  Anthropic will collect all prompts and the output generated by Mythos class models such as Fable and store them for 30 days.  This is meant to better detect abuses of their terms of service.  —  Microsoft has held off on adopting Fable due to this data collection and I expect man…