Discussion

• @shipwreck75 @shipwreck75 on bluesky

  Hey look, China stole more IP again, imagine that...  China's DeepSeek trained AI model on Nvidia's best chip despite US ban, official says  —  www.reuters.com/world/china/ ...

• r/LocalLLaMA r on reddit

  Exclusive: China's DeepSeek trained AI model on Nvidia's best chip despite US ban, official says

• r/technology r on reddit

  Exclusive: China's DeepSeek trained AI model on Nvidia's best chip despite US ban, official says

• r/BetterOffline r on reddit

  Anthropic accuses Chinese companies of “copying” its models through mass industrial distillation.

• @basedjensen @basedjensen on x

  How exactly are you deleting evidence of chips used Also us banning china from using blackwells does not make it illegal whatsoever to use them. Also did this mf with a serious face say “distillation attack”

• @hraleighspeaks Helen Raleigh on x

  From the beginning, I've never believed DeepSeek's claim that it didn't rely on the most advanced NVIDIA chips . China's AI industry depends more on US technologies than it's willing to admit. https://helenraleigh.substack.com/ ... [image]

• @hansmahncke Hans Mahncke on x

  Deepseek's copy and paste operation built on U.S. technology is not the exception, it is the rule. The same pattern runs through every single supposed innovation, from reverse engineering the F-35 and copying Tesla, to now also ripping off SpaceX. Each step relies on Western

• @chrisrmcguire Chris McGuire on x

  So according to a senior USG official, Deepseek: (1) illegally obtained banned Blackwell chips, (2) used those chips to train its upcoming model, and plans to delete the evidence (and likely lie about what chips it actually used), and (3) also trained its model using

• @kimmonismus @kimmonismus on x

  DeepSeek reportedly trained its upcoming model on Nvidia's top-tier Blackwell chips - despite U.S. export controls banning their shipment to China. A senior U.S. official said the chips were likely clustered in an Inner Mongolia data center and that DeepSeek may attempt to erase …

• @teortaxestex @teortaxestex on x

  I think it's bullshit, but if DeepSeek has a Blackwell cluster in Inner Mongolia... bullish for V4 [image]

• @scaling01 @scaling01 on x

  DeepSeek-V4 trained on Blackwell 💀

• @gfodor @gfodor on x

  I'm torn, because I think frontier labs have a moral duty to open source models once it's safe to do so. DeepSeek stealing from Anthropic, a company that hasn't open sourced a damn thing, to release a frontier model to the world are closer to Robin Hood than common thieves.

• @andrewcurran_ Andrew Curran on x

  A senior U.S. official told Reuters that DeepSeek's new model - whose release is now imminent - has been trained using NVIDIA Blackwell GPUs, despite the export ban. [image]

• @anthropicai @anthropicai on x

  We've identified industrial-scale distillation attacks on our models by DeepSeek, Moonshot AI, and MiniMax. These labs created over 24,000 fraudulent accounts and generated over 16 million exchanges with Claude, extracting its capabilities to train and improve their own models.

• @anthropicai @anthropicai on x

  Distillation can be legitimate: AI labs use it to create smaller, cheaper models for their customers. But foreign labs that illicitly distill American models can remove safeguards, feeding model capabilities into their own military, intelligence, and surveillance systems.

• @elonmusk Elon Musk on x

  Anthropic is guilty of stealing training data at massive scale and has had to pay multi-billion dollar settlements for their theft. This is just a fact.

• @ns123abc Nik on x

  the community notes COOKED anthropic 😭😭 [image]

• @garymarcus Gary Marcus on x

  um, so is xAI, unless I am missing something? no settlements yet, sure, but similar mass theft, no doubt?

• @natolambert Nathan Lambert on x

  How much does distillation really matter for Chinese LLMs? DeepSeek's usage was a rounding error. MiniMax's was substantial. But distillation is getting less important as RL takes over — it's easier to access “banned” APIs than to smuggle GPUs. https://www.interconnects.ai/ ...

• @cloud_opinion @cloud_opinion on x

  We've identified industrial-scale distillation attacks on our tweets by everyone else. They are using the characters a-z that we have used to create our tweets. They are reading our tweets and using same English characters to write their own tweets.

• @louszbd Lou on x

  progress in AI has always been built on learning from each other, open research (and of course healthy competition) our ultimate goal is AGI, we want the ecosystem to be inclusive and open respect every lab's effort to protect their IP, but always believe the path to AGI is a

• @anthropicai @anthropicai on x

  These attacks are growing in intensity and sophistication. Addressing them will require rapid, coordinated action among industry players, policymakers, and the broader AI community. Read more: https://www.anthropic.com/...

• @elonmusk Elon Musk on x

  @tetsuoai Banger 🤣🤣 How dare they steal the stuff Anthropic stole from human coders??

• @theprimeagen @theprimeagen on x

  wait... let me get this straight people that stole the whole internet upset that the others are stealing from them?

• @teknium @teknium on x

  Ohhh nooo not my private IP how dare someone use that to train an AI model, only Anthropic has the right to use everyone elses IP nooooo, this cannot stand!

• @suhail @suhail on x

  Seems fair tbh. Anthropic has done industrial scale scraping of everyone's stuff 🤷🏾‍♂️

• @hkydlicek Hynek Kydlíček on x

  Anthropic brothers, as much as I love your models; you have distillied the whole internet, wikipedia and shit-tons of books. Distilling your models is only fair game.... Are your scrappers not using residental proxies and respecting robots.txt or are they “malicious” ?

• @theo @theo on x

  This explains why the only major model that still suck at tool calling is Gemini

• @mert @mert on x

  silicon valley was a documentary damn it jian yang [image]

• @vasuman Vas on x

  Company that trained on everyone's data without asking is upset that someone trained on its data without asking 2026 is the year of open source for a reason

• @timnitgebru @timnitgebru on x

  And lols Deepskeek is gonna make it free and open weight unlike these people. What they're doing is showing how this bubble propped up by these goons makes no sense.

• @maharshii Maharshi on x

  “create a distilled model from claude, make no mistakes” [image]

• @autismcapital @autismcapital on x

  “New Claude.” [image]

• @adxtyahq Aditya on x

  trained on “public data” btw. [video]

• @rnaudbertrand Arnaud Bertrand on x

  I have a website about Traditional Chinese Medicine that I spent literal years building. When I asked questions to Claude about the topic, it parroted almost word-for-word what I myself wrote. So please spare us the gaslighting about training AI on others' work...

• @firt Maximiliano Firtman on x

  Fun fact: Three of my books are included in the class-action lawsuit where Anthropic agreed to pay authors for illegally downloading and using content to train those models, which are now being illegally distilled in China 😛

• @elonmusk Elon Musk on x

  @matterasmachine Yeah, but we're not super smug, sanctimonious and hypocritical about it like Anthropic is

• @iamemily2050 Emily on x

  This is pure evil. First, Anthropic used torrent to download all the books and data for training on top of the internet, without asking permission from anyone. Second, the Chinese companies paid for the API and did not get the information for free, third it seems like Anthropic

• @kenwheeler Patagucci Perf Papi on x

  we might be 6-12 months from open source models completely annihilating frontier labs end to end

• @_its_not_real_ @_its_not_real_ on x

  NO CRYING IN THE COPYRIGHT CASINO

• @goodalexander @goodalexander on x

  oh? [image]

• @0xsero @0xsero on x

  Lame, incredibly lame. Let me make your life better: 1. Go install this 2. Run it 3. Get all your Claude conversations outputted as jsonl (training data) Get a model to strip the ENVs or private info. Share the dataset. We can build it ourselves https://github.com/...

• @ivylala Ivy Yang on x

  DeepSeek, Moonshot and Minimax, do you guys have a PR crisis plan to activate right about now?

• @timnitgebru @timnitgebru on x

  Shameless people stealing everyone's data then complaining about other people stealing from them 😂

• @healthranger @healthranger on x

  Looks to me like Anthropic is panicked because DeepSeek V4 is going to beat Opus 4.6 on the SWE benchmark. No doubt Anthropic is highly capable for coding agents. They've been the best all along. But DeepSeek is about to change that. And screaming, “they stole our answers!” isn't

• @cryptopunk7213 @cryptopunk7213 on x

  fucking hell anthropic just revealed top chinese AI labs are illegally stealing Claude's AI formula to improve their own models: - the perpetrators: DeepSeek, moonshot (kimiK2) and MiniMax 🤡 - goal: steal claude's coding, reasoning capabilities for their own models - 24,000

• @luke_metro @luke_metro on x

  [image]

• @0xqtpie @0xqtpie on x

  so what u guys are telling me is minimax is essentially just opus4.6 but 10x cheaper and 10x less woke?

• @turtlekiosk @turtlekiosk on x

  i taught my claude to start each conversation with a Stolen Data Acknowledgement [image]

• @kenwheeler Patagucci Perf Papi on x

  damn that's crazy they stole your ip and are trying to resell it for a profit? what kind of complete fucking asshole would do that!?

• @yuchenj_uw Yuchen Jin on x

  Distillation does have significant impact! [image]

• @heyshrutimishra Shruti on x

  Holy sh*t Anthropic just caught DeepSeek secretly stealing from Claude. They created thousands of fake accounts. Then bombarded Claude with millions of questions & took Claude's answers for using them to train their own AI. Claude trained DeepSeek. Without knowing it. They

• @ai_emeraldapple Emerald Apple on x

  You will notice that Anthropic is getting sympathy from no one. They trained their models with trillions of tokens of text and information from all over the web, books, and all kinds of copyrighted material. While companies like MIS-Anthropic keep their models as proprietary

• @adxtyahq Aditya on x

  “16 million exchanges?!” “This is called open source” [video]

• @beffjezos @beffjezos on x

  “Why are Chinese open source models so good?” It's all Claude clones

• @sashayanshin Sasha Yanshin on x

  This is unacceptable. Anthropic spent years painstakingly stealing data from the entire internet without paying anyone a single dollar. They spent months carefully ignoring everyone else's IP and terms of service to enrich themselves. How dare these Chinese AI companies come

• @theo @theo on x

  Anthropic is lying in this report. I've spent the entire day analyzing their reporting. It's hard for me to come to any other conclusion.

• @zivdotcat @zivdotcat on x

  pov: look mom...they scraped my decades of hard work and trained a model to mimic my expertise for free [video]

• @princevogel @princevogel on x

  Forgive me I do like Anthropic but I just don't see what's wrong with this Either copyright is real or it isn't. Pick a lane. You guys did *not* pay for everything in your training data

• @tetsuoai Tetsuo on x

  I can't believe someone would just steal from Anthropic like this. The millions of man-hours Anthropic spent hand-writing code, text, art, books, etc. to generate enough data for training must be taken into consideration here. Where is the respect for IP?

• @edzitron Ed Zitron on x

  I love that Anthropic is somehow both a big powerful ai lab with such powerful unique tech and also a tiny small bean trembling in fear and screaming in agony that somebody was able to extract the value of its product by using its outputs. I'm filled with confidence!

• @nrehiew_ @nrehiew_ on x

  This will make headlines among people who don't know better. But I am extremely curious to know what novel distillation method they have cooked in China, which requires only ~10M samples (not even logits!) to compete at the frontier. DeepSeek needed only 150,000 samples! [image]

• @tensor_rotator Alek Dimitriev on x

  I can finally publicly state one reason I've not been bullish on open source catching up and overtaking the frontier labs: we observed several of the top open source models distilling from Claude. Leapfrogging happens through innovation, not distillation.

• @ankkala @ankkala on x

  How about we start an initiative to crowdsource data from these labs and send it to China. At least the Chinese release their model weights

• @antoniogm Antonio García Martínez on x

  Inside Beijing's Forbidden City there's a wonderful clock museum that shows off the spectacular timepieces that European powers gifted Chinese emperors. Every exhibit has two clocks, one labeled something like: ‘James Cox & Sons, 1787’ And the copy right next to it: 'Qing

• @evanwritesonx Evan on x

  I love China. Zero respect towards Western IP. Pick apart, reverse engineer, imitate, and push it out at the fraction of the cost.

• @forgebitz Klaas on x

  trained on public data should be public models

• @nc_renic Neil Renic on x

  HELP! THEY'RE PLAGIARIZING OUR PLAGIARISM MACHINE

• @tekbog @tekbog on x

  wow someone trained on your work? that's crazy

• @gergelyorosz Gergely Orosz on x

  Anthropic scrapes copyrighted materials online; creates a model that they charge $$ for; doesn't compensate for use - apparently this is fair? Now Anthropic complains about other companies paying for model access, to create free models anyone can use - and this is not fair??

• @teortaxestex @teortaxestex on x

  Haha. Assuming it's true, that in fact maps well to how I evaluate the seriousness of labs. DeepSeek: on the order of 3 alpaca datasets, inspecting how Claude CoT works, bootstrapping RMs, style of propaganda (lmao). Not so much “distillation”. Moonshot, MiniMax: no comment. [ima…

• @hsvsphere @hsvsphere on x

  Wow, based. I will use the Chinese models more, I can even use it for sensitive topics as they're open source.

• @yacinemtb Kache on x

  >steal every movie, book, and copyrighted piece of content in existence >Noooooo you can't pay us for tokens The worst kind of evil is the inconsistent evil

• @wesbos Wes Bos on x

  Oh noooo, the company that extracted our data for their models is having others extracting data for their models

• @hxiao Han Xiao on x

  This anti-Chinese culture and vibe... imagine being Chinese and working at Anthropic right now. must be super tough every single day.

• @initjean @initjean on x

  oh sorry, does someone not like it when their data is used for AI training [image]

• @theahmadosman Ahmad on x

  Cry me a river, you pirated humanity's knowledge and trained your models on it!

• @__tinygrad__ @__tinygrad__ on x

  I'm sure those tokens were bought and paid for, @AnthropicAI just didn't like how they were used. Sounds like they were spying on they customers. Buy a tinybox where nobody can spy on you!

• @chribjel Christoffer Bjelke on x

  “distillation attacks” so they payed for usage, and used the output? basically what im doing

• @ivanfioravanti Ivan Fioravanti on x

  We extract nearly all (95.8%) of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone from Claude Sonnet 🤷🏻‍♂️ [image]

• @tommyfalkowski Tommy Falkowski on x

  Words cannot express how fucking angry this kind of statement is making me. This kind of of psychopathic public behavior should not be condoned for even one second. Are you fucking kidding me? Who even signed off on publishing something like this??? The only chance anthropic and

• @gothburz Peter Girnus on x

  Credit where it's due — they named DeepSeek, Moonshot, and MiniMax with specific attribution. But the IoCs are shared privately while the policy ask is shared publicly. The audience for this post isn't defenders though, it's @congressdotgov @HouseGOP @HouseDemocrats @SenateGOP

• @xenoimpulse @xenoimpulse on x

  This statement is entirely nonsensical ("distillation attacks") until you realize it's essentially a PR attempt aimed at the DoD given recent events.

• @headinthebox Erik Meijer on x

  Any system, software, hardware, AI model, ..., that can be observed, can be cloned.

• @krishnanrohit Rohit on x

  This is interesting. The article says Deepseek had 150k exchanges, Moonshot 3.4m and MiniMax 13m. That's a difference of 100x between Deepseek and MiniMax, were they doing the same thing? Also, fromt his, seems using Claude as “llm as a judge” seems to violate the policy too? [im…

• @morqon Morgan on x

  they'll spin it differently, but deepseek isn't the problem here: “150,000 interactions” is only 0.9% of the detected distillations [image]

• @mitsuhiko Armin Ronacher on x

  Distillation is great! We need more of it.

• @jackfriks Jack Friks on x

  maybe this is why anthropic been so worried about people using their claude code subs for things other than claude code trying to stop this

• @jackellis Jack Ellis on x

  Anthropic: Trains it's models using other people's data Also Anthropic: China is stealing our data!

• @morqon Morgan on x

  just in time for the deepseek narrative window

• @firstadopter Tae Kim on x

  Large swaths of the media and here on social media played the role of the useful idiot gushing over DeepSeek's prowess. Good job everyone!

• @jaredkubin Jared L Kubin on x

  It's almost like they need... durable battle tested security products

• @firstadopter Tae Kim on x

  I wrote about this before, how China's advances are fraudulent. Now confirmed by both OpenAI and Anthropic. Yes, DeepSeek is a copycat, copy paste fraud “We have identified industrial-scale campaigns by three AI laboratories—DeepSeek, Moonshot, and MiniMax—to illicitly extract

• @luciascarlet † Lucia Scarlet on x

  🥺 oh noooooo 🥺,,, anyway

• @anthonyronning Anthony Ronning on x

  Good. Anthropic has copied and destroyed millions of books illegally, have made millions of api scrapes on the web per day, and is extracting all of our human knowledge to profit and keep to themselves. We need more companies and people to do the same to them to get it back.

• @sigkitten @sigkitten on x

  good job, deepseek, moonshot, minimax. please do more

• @timfduffy Tim Duffy on x

  Also, https://z.ai/ is a surprising omission, are they not training on Claude or is there just not as strong evidence? I think I've heard folks say GLM sounds Claudey before.

• @timfduffy Tim Duffy on x

  Personally I think it's probably good that it's possible to use distillation to help catch up to the frontier, makes it harder for any one lab to pull ahead.

• @timfduffy Tim Duffy on x

  This has been long suspected, but I think this is the first official accusation, right? I wonder if OpenAI has also seen distillation by those labs using their models.

• @abcampbell @abcampbell on x

  remember when the doomers told us china was too concerned about control to compete at the frontier? rationalist epistemics in shambles rn but everyone too busy raising money for their pet ngos to care https://x.com/...

• @alexpalcuie @alexpalcuie on x

  just a sample of my workday

• @jenka @jenka on bluesky

  Is this the losing the AI race with China we were warned about? [embedded post]

• @parismarx.com Paris Marx on bluesky

  Given they stole everyone's art, writing, social media posts, and virtually everything else to build these AI models in the first place, why am I supposed to care if anyone steals from them? [embedded post]

• @seldo.com Laurie Voss on bluesky

  The *audacity* it takes the big model trainers to complain that somebody else scraped their work and is capturing value from it without permission.  The sheer chutzpah.  The staggering lack of self-awareness.  It's gobsmacking.  [embedded post]

• @peark.es George Pearkes on bluesky

  Do NOT recommend reading this at face value but it does have some interesting anecdotes in it about how Anthropic is able to detect and undermine distillation attacks.

• @mclean Michael McLean on bluesky

  LLM Distillation is really underdiscussed.  Fascinating to me that third-party groups are better at distilling the frontier models than the frontier labs themselves lol.  [embedded post]

• r/BetterOffline r on reddit

  Anthropic denounces “industrial-scale distillation attacks” by Chinese AI labs

• r/singularity r on reddit

  Anthropic is accusing DeepSeek, Moonshot AI (Kimi) and MiniMax of setting up more than 24,000 fraudulent Claude accounts, and distilling training information from 16 million exchanges.

• r/technology r on reddit

  Anthropic claims to have identified industrial-scale distillation attacks by DeepSeek, Moonshot AI, and MiniMax.