Discussion

• @stephennellis Stephen Nellis on x

  Cook says he doesn't remember the exact number of dollars Google pays to be the default search engine on the iPhone and says he doesn't know if the DoJ estimate is correct. He also says he doesn't know why Google did the deal. “You would have to ask them what they pay for.”

• @megan_nicolett Megan Farokhmanesh on x

  tim cook having to utter the words “I'm not a gamer” on record is why the epic v apple trial is good

• @thedextriarchy Adi Robertson on x

  Last day of Epic v. Apple testimony starts in 20! Apple is calling Tim Cook to bring its side home, with a brief followup by Apple's expert infosec witness Aviel Rubin. https://twitter.com/...

• @shiraovide Shira Ovide on x

  ahahahahahahahha. Ok, sure. https://www.nytimes.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x

  Astute of the Epic vs Apple judge to point out this weirdest aspect of Apple's 30%. Gamers (and dating apps) are pretty much subsidizing everything else on the App Store. It's inevitable that Apple will ask for their cut from ads supported business arguing privacy or fairness. ht…

• @kantrowitz Alex Kantrowitz on x

  Man this is ridiculous https://twitter.com/...

• @stephennellis Stephen Nellis on x

  I would submit that YGR's last barrage was pretty dramatic. She clearly was skeptical that what Apple reaps from game developers is justified by what Apple provides or that it faces real competitive on either IAP rates or for attracting developers. https://twitter.com/...

• @mattyglesias Matthew Yglesias on x

  I haven't written about this much but I think Apple's app store rent-extraction has passed into “worse than a crime” territory and a better CEO would just not do it.

• @nickstatt Nick Statt on x

  Here's @thedextriarchy with the full transcript of the judge and Tim Cook's back-and-forth today in the final day of Epic v. Apple, and it's worth reading. No one will likely get as prime an opportunity to question Apple about its business model for years to come. https://twitter…

• @kairyssdal Kai Ryssdal on x

  I call bs. Again. https://twitter.com/...

• @gartenberg Michael Gartenberg on x

  “when Cook was asked about Apple's deal with Google that keeps the search engine as the default on iOS. Cook said he didn't remember the specific numbers.” 😂😂😂 https://techcrunch.com/...

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  This trial has had nothing like a Perry Mason Moment, but if you were a Hollywood director making a film on it you'd focus almost entirely on the last 90m and specifically the last 5m.

• @stephennellis Stephen Nellis on x

  2/ But really pressing Cook over whether Apple generates disproportionate profits *from game developers* and *relative to all other developers* suggests she might not view Apple as in the clear if the market is games.

• @stroughtonsmith Steve Troughton-Smith on x

  ‘But Epic just want their own App Store’ One of the major contributing factors to the success of iPhone & the technological revolution it sparked is how Apple wrested control away from the carriers — ‘orifices’ as Steve Jobs called them. Apple has become the orifice.

• @shannonpareil Shannon Bond on x

  Tim Cook defended against accusations that Apple's an illegal monopoly, via its tight grip on apps & purchases in its App Store. The judge sounded skeptical: “The lack of competition on the 30% [commission Apple charges] is something that is troubling.” https://www.npr.org/...

• @thurrott Paul Thurrott on x

  “In his Epic v. Apple trial testimony, Tim Cook offered a carefully tended ignorance that left many of the lawsuit's key questions unanswered, or unanswerable” Translation: He lied on the stand, then.

• @markgurman Mark Gurman on x

  This doesn't sound good for Apple right now. The judge is questioning in app purchase and Apple's business model. She also doesn't believe Apple launched the 15% program because of Covid. Keep in mind this is the last word from a major witness to the judge too.

• @drbarnard David Barnard on x

  Schiller got away clean, but Cook is coming off terribly under cross examination. Sure seems like he's lying about not being aware of certain things, flat out denying things that require nuance to deny, etc. https://twitter.com/...

• @bzamayo Benjamin Mayo on x

  I can't believe that Apple keeps testifying that it doesn't know how much profit it makes from the App Store. It's just an insane declaration. On financial statements, Apple publicly reports Services business with ~63% margins. App Store is most of that. Done.

• @rleverafp Rob Lever on x

  Apple's @tim_cook says App Store would be ‘toxic’ mess without control, gets harsh questions from judge in #epicvapple trial https://news.yahoo.com/... via @YahooNews #AFP

• @stephennellis Stephen Nellis on x

  Cook on the stand answering questions about App Store curation and approvals: “We're not making a moral judgement on them, if that's what you're asking” Here are the App Store review guidelines, where the first rule is about “objectionable content” https://developer.apple.com/ ..…

• @geoffreyfowler Geoffrey A. Fowler on x

  I just spit out my coffee at this: Lawyer: What's it like to try to switch from an iPhone to Android? Tim Cook: “It's gotten much easier.” I would love watch Tim try to move all his iPhone data to a Samsung phone! I've lost whole days trying. https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @bdkjones Bryan Jones on x

  That @tim_cook had no idea 40% of his developers are “very dissatisfied” with Apple goes a long way towards explaining why Apple's developer relations are so godawful. https://www.theverge.com/...

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  Judge: ok but let's talk banking apps. I suspect other than the $99 annual fee you don't charge Wells Fargo — correct, Cook says — but you are charging gamers, who subsidise the banking apps, no? (Great questioning)

• @pitts_man Pitts on x

  Overall a good day for Tim Cook. No real headlines that can be used against Apple in the future. The thing the press has latched on to is Judge YGR's pointed questioning, but only within the frame of “wow she's skeptical.”

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  “Carefully tended ignorance” is very well put. https://twitter.com/...

• @demeryuk Daniel Emery on x

  Tim Cook claiming he does't know if the Apple Store makes a profit is the most brazen and unbelievable thing I've ever heard in a hearing.

• @iyengarish Rishi Iyengar on x

  “It has nothing to do with money.” Tim Cook presented Apple as a principled company obsessively focused on benefiting its users in his first-ever court appearance this morning. https://www.cnn.com/...

• @drbarnard David Barnard on x

  I suppose this boils down to Cook just not being as knowledgable about the App Store and all the nuance. Schiller was not only heavily involved since before the App Store even launched, but has been the Apple exec most engaged in every aspect of the App Store these past 13 years.

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  Apple's lawyer tried to introduce a news article today regarding @Snapchat saying they are fine paying the 30% commission. The judge wouldn't allow it.

• @martinsfp Martin Sfp Bryant on x

  And “carefully tended ignorance” will have been exactly what his lawyers were going for. https://twitter.com/...

• @susanlitv Susan Li on x

  After 3 hours on the stand with a small break📱 #Apple CEO #TimCook flashes the peace sign ✌️ just like he did heading in! No smoking guns with some pointed back and forths with #Epic #fortnite lawyers 1st time on the witness stand in a courtroom for $aapl boss uneventful https://…

• @geoffreyfowler Geoffrey A. Fowler on x

  It's incredible to hear Tim Cook argue the iPhone App Store faces competition from app stores on ... other devices. https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @jacobwolf Jacob Wolf on x

  Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers just said to Cook that the game developers are the one retaining users on apps, not Apple. Yet Apple is making a profit off in-app purchases made in mobile games like Fortnite. Seems like the judge is starting to really form her opinion here.

• @blaw @blaw on x

  Apple does a far better job reviewing apps for iPhone and iPad users than third-party companies, CEO Tim Cook testified in a high-stakes antitrust battle with Epic Games. https://blawgo.com/w4lcdNZ

• @stephennellis Stephen Nellis on x

  3/3 Similarly, Epic didn't lean super hard on the notion that Apple faces no competition to keep developers happy, but Judge YGR also pressed Cook there. While judges always ask tough questions, these were qualitatively different than what she asked Tim Sweeney.

• @patrickmcgee_ Patrick McGee on x

  The Judge is pressing Tim Cook now... *mini thread* all paraphrasing: You said you focus on users. I've seen evidence that lots of revenue comes from gamers. A v significant amount, right? Cook agrees games are the majority of in-app purchase

• @chancehmiller Chance Miller on x

  Live blogging Tim Cook's testimony here, lots of privacy talk so far https://9to5mac.com/...

• @stephennellis Stephen Nellis on x

  1/ One of the reasons Judge YGR's line of questions was so interesting: Apple *wants* her to consider game transactions as the relevant market. The prevailing view has been that if Apple wins on market construction claims, they are largely out of the woods on the rest.

• @nickstatt Nick Statt on x

  So to summarize, Judge Gonzalez Rogers has really narrowed in on the rules against telling customers of cheaper options and appears to think Apple does this for financial gain, giving us our best idea yet of how she may rule in this case.

• @reckless Nilay Patel on x

  The judge in Epic v Apple just torched Tim Cook and said Apple didn't really feel any competition for developers. A wild development on the last day of testimony in this trial. @thedextriarchy reports: https://www.theverge.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @reckless Nilay Patel on x

  I have no idea if Epic will win or lose but the judge's questions to Tim Cook right now are as pointed as it gets https://twitter.com/...

• @mims Christopher Mims on x

  would like a limited edition print of this courtroom sketch of tim cook, thanks https://www.wsj.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @benthompson Ben Thompson on x

  In all seriousness, I think the App Store is awesome. Apple created something really valuable, and Google rightly did the same. I support its existence. The reason I push back is I worry about the next great things that won't get built on top. There's a middle ground here.

• @holdendepardo Holden DePardo on x

  They've also gone down on App Store specifically. I remember when Super Monkey Ball launched at $10 in 2008. Now, it's much more likely to see games release freemium. $5 would be considered a lot today. Exception: Final Fantasy ports. Holy moly are they pricey for App Store https…

• @sgrif @sgrif on x

  No, it's akin to if you buy an iPhone at Best Buy, and in the box there's information directing you to their website WHICH IS LITERALLY WHAT HAPPENS https://twitter.com/...

• @darth Darth&trade on x

  hope some body asks tim apple why the iPad still does not have multi-user support https://twitter.com/...

• @reedalbergotti Reed Albergotti on x

  A bit of courtroom drama this morning as Apple CEO Tim Cook takes the stand in the Epic v Apple trial. Because Covid, the public can actually listen to it live. But if you just want to read the important updates, we'll be posting them live here. https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ..…

• @thedextriarchy Adi Robertson on x

  As a couple people in mentions point out it's about Snapchat, likely this article where Evan Spiegel says he's happy to pay Apple's 30% commission https://www.cnbc.com/...

• @squawkcnbc Squawk Box on x

  Apple “has a quasi-monopoly which they share to some degree with Google,” says Barry Diller on the ongoing Apple vs. Epic trial $AAPL $GOOGL “It's irrational the 30%. It makes no sense.” https://twitter.com/...

• @baekdal Thomas Baekdal on x

  Define the ‘Stockholm syndrome’ ... also, Snap would probably not say this is Apple also required 30% of all their ad revenue. https://twitter.com/...

• @ballmatthew Matthew Ball on x

  @stevesi I mean, what percent of Snap's total revenues pay a single percentage to the App Store?

• @tomgara Tom Gara on x

  Barry Diller is at peak performance right now, shit talking his enemies on live TV while sitting on the $300 million island he built off the coast of Manhattan https://twitter.com/...

• @corvak @corvak on x

  Snapchat, Twitter, etc. all make the lion's share of their $$$ by collecting user data and selling it, not through direct purchases via apps. https://twitter.com/...

• @thedextriarchy Adi Robertson on x

  I'm sure there *are* plenty of developers who are fine by the App Store but it's funny to think about Apple going “we need some happy developers from our 10+ years operating a giant store, thank god one finally came in an hour ago”

• @keleftheriou Kosta Eleftheriou on x

  Evan Spiegel: We're happy to pay Apple 30% but we're not using IAP so we're not really paying anything, lol. Tim Cook: lol, we'll figure out how to invoice you and then chase you. https://www.cnbc.com/...

• @thedextriarchy Adi Robertson on x

  Now talking about whether developers like Apple — the lawyer is trying to bring up an article that was published while Tim Cook was on the stand, but the judge won't allow it. Not sure what it was.

• @keleftheriou Kosta Eleftheriou on x

  Uhm, Snap is a $90B company that's making money from ads, which Apple doesn't see a cent from. They've only ever paid Apple ~$3M from IAP, according to @appfigures. I did not expect to see Spiegel run to cover for Cook in such a dishonest way. 😕 https://twitter.com/...

• @stevesi Steven Sinofsky on x

  Snap CEO Evan Spiegel: We're happy to pay Apple 30% — without Apple we wouldn't exist https://www.cnbc.com/... // narrative violation

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x

  This is a good example of a strategy credit since Snapchat makes money from ads not in-app purchases so it costs them nothing to suck up to Apple. Would be different if they were celebrating if Apple asked for 30% of ad revenue from iOS apps. https://www.cnbc.com/...

• @xrandrew Andrew Woodberry on x

  What someone who wants to be acquired by Apple would say https://www.cnbc.com/...

• @stevestreza Steve Streza on x

  I'm far more okay with a company of the size and scale of Snap paying Apple's 30% tax than small indies and people just getting their app off the ground. That's why the drop to 15% under $1 million was a good start. The anticompetitive arguments still exist without arguing %. htt…

• @drbarnard David Barnard on x

  This is part of my problem in objectively considering arguments about various aspects of the App Store. As much as I complain about Apple, I wouldn't have built a software business if it weren't for the App Store. I'm genuinely grateful for that and don't begrudge Apple the 30%. …

• @iamtylertmarion Tyler Marion on x

  Evan gets it. You can't credit Apple for helping you grow and then after you're big you're mad and saying they won't allow me to grow https://twitter.com/...

• @austinj Austin Johnsen on x

  Isn't like all of Snap's revenue from ads which it doesn't pay Apple a commission on? https://twitter.com/...

• @benthompson Ben Thompson on x

  Imagine people arguing in 1998 that Microsoft deserves 30% of all software sales with zero alternatives allowed lmao

• @marypcbuk Mary Branscombe on x

  Apple Accuses Microsoft of Using Epic in Legal Attack - yeah, because Microsoft and Tim Sweeney of Epic have *never* had massive public fight about UWP apps and the Microsoft Store being too controlling for Epic https://finance.yahoo.com/...

• @danbiohackinman @danbiohackinman on x

  @Techmeme @markgurman I don't see how, even if true, this information makes @EpicGames 's claims irrelevant. Regardless, App store fees need more competition, this probably is a dog and pony show to pretend their is not a oligopoly

• @mgsiegler M.G. Siegler on x

  Basically the Snoke/Palpatine plotline in the latest trilogy... https://twitter.com/...