Epic filing reveals that in a 2016 email Phil Schiller said “moving iMessage to Android will hurt us more than help us”, which Epic argues is proof of lock-in
Epic and Apple are preparing to battle it out in court over the App Store (remember that whole Fortnite debacle?) …
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Related Coverage
- Apple says iMessage on Android ‘will hurt us more than help us’ The Verge · Jon Porter
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- Apple's Rationale for Not Bringing iMessage to Android Revealed in Legal Documents MacRumors · Tim Hardwick
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- This is why your Galaxy phone doesn't have iMessage SamMobile · Dominik B.
- Apple won't put iMessage on Android in order to keep users locked-in, court documents reveal The Independent · Adam Smith
- Apple Admits to Not Bringing iMessage to Android to Keep Users Locked In to Its Ecosystem iPhone Hacks · Rajesh Pandey
- We know exactly why there's no iMessage app for Android BGR · Chris Smith
- Apple Realized Bringing iMessage To Android Will Hurt The Company Android Headlines · Kristijan Lucic
- Of course Apple could've made iMessage for Android but it didn't Pocketnow · Prakhar Khanna
- Court documents show why Apple never made iMessage for Android Cult of Mac · Luke Dormehl
- Apple Claims Moving iMessage to Android Will Do More Harm Than Good Wccftech · Omar Sohail
- Apple kept iMessage to itself when it could have come to Android back in 2013 Android Authority · Adamya Sharma
- Why Apple doesn't want iMessage on Android phones TechRadar · Hamish Hector
- iMessage for Android killed due to lock-in, legal documents reveal SlashGear · JC Torres
- Apple: ‘Moving iMessage to Android will hurt us more than help us’ 9to5Google · Abner Li
- Samsung launches ‘iTest,’ a new web app for turning your iPhone into a Galaxy device 9to5Mac · Chance Miller
- Senior Apple anti-fraud engineer suggests App Store checks are grossly inadequate 9to5Mac · Ben Lovejoy
- Apple says Epic's Fortnite lawsuit is a marketing stunt to revive ‘flagging interest’ in the game CNET · Ian Sherr
- Apple Executive Says App Store Fraud Checks Are Like ‘Bringing Butter Knife in Gunfight’ iPhone Hacks · Sanuj Bhatia
- Apple v. Epic: The filings have landed Philip Elmer‑DeWitt · Philip Elmer-DeWitt
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- Apple and Epic just laid out how they're going to fight about Apple's control of the App Store CNBC · Kif Leswing
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- Epic Games and Apple file proposed findings of fact and conclusions of law: 688 pages in total FOSS Patents · Florian Mueller
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- Epic Games, Apple Reveal Arguments Ahead Of Antitrust Trial PYMNTS.com
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- Apple's Battle With Fortnite Maker Epic Games Intensifies As Lawsuit Challenges 30% App Store Commission Forbes · Robert Hart
- Full text of the injunction Epic Games is seeking against Apple's App Store terms and policies FOSS Patents · Florian Mueller
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Discussion
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@reckless
Nilay Patel
on x
Wild to see Apple execs openly acknowledge the fact that blue bubbles are a huge lock-in advantage https://www.theverge.com/...
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@charlesarthur
Charles Arthur
on x
Looking forward to some revelations in this court filing about bears' toilet habits too. https://twitter.com/...
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@tomwarren
Tom Warren
on x
if you're wondering what the rest of the world uses instead of iMessage: • Europe: WhatsApp / FB Messenger • China: WeChat • South Africa: WhatsApp • India: WhatsApp • Australia: FB Messenger • Ukraine: Viber • Iran: Telegram
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@pierce
David Pierce
on x
Today in “things that are so obviously true, I mean have you seen the shade of green they chose” https://twitter.com/...
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@dcseifert
Dan Seifert
on x
apple finally said the quiet part out loud https://www.theverge.com/...
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@marcoarment
Marco Arment
on x
I don't see why everyone's talking about this. Of course iMessage provides huge iOS lock-in. Of course Apple knows it. Tech companies are under no obligation to be “open”. They're open when it suits them and closed when it doesn't, and that usually doesn't warrant intervention. h…
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@tomwarren
Tom Warren
on x
it's funny to see Apple admit iMessage lock-in is a thing, but it's mainly a big deal in the US. Nobody cares about iMessage in Europe https://twitter.com/...
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@jherskowitz
J Herskowitz
on x
“iMessage on Android would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones,” was Federighi's concern according to the Epic filing. https://www.theverge.com/...
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@droid_life
Droid Life
on x
The reason Apple didn't make iMessage for Android is exactly what you thought. https://www.droid-life.com/...
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
Former head of App Review says some apps were “remov[ed]” “immediately” because Mr. Schiller and Mr. Cue were “adamant” about (their) removal, despite Mr. Shoemaker's “protest[s]” that there was no clear justification for doing so under the app review guidelines.
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@fosspatents
Florian Mueller
on x
“Apple's security experts remained out of this debate [over whether developers could distribute their iOS apps directly eo end users), noting that the question of exclusive distribution is one of ‘policy’, as opposed to security. Apparently confirmed by ex-Apple exec Forstall. ht…
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
Epic argues Apple has “no evidence” its app review process “screens for security issues better than other methods of app distribution”. It cites many examples of fraudulent apps, eg fake blood pressure detection tools and scams where users have been mislead into buying items
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@wavesblog
Simonetta Vezzoso
on x
“The revelation could be a significant blow to Apple's defence, which rests on its insistence that the contentious 30 per cent “tax” ... s necessary to fund curation of the store and protect consumers from malware” https://twitter.com/...
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@redblueglobal
@redblueglobal
on x
This shows that “security by obscurity” sooner or later will blow out. Unfortunately, more vendors don't even attach CVE numbers to the patches. #apple #cybersecurity #Hacking https://www.ft.com/...
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
However in late 2017 Apple's FEAR team still called the App Review process inadequate. Friedman said it “was more like the pretty lady who greets you with a lei at the Hawaiian airport than the drug sniffing dog.” https://twitter.com/...
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
In 2015, Apple recognized that Google's way of automating the screening process had some advantages. It acquired a company called SourceDNA to help detect malicious apps.
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@chrismessina
@chrismessina
on x
I don't know if we should bring reinforcements or popcorn 🍿 https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/...
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
CEO of Headspace became upset with the level of “egregious theft” on the App Store as copy-cats sprang up, stealing its IP. “Shockingly, Apple [is] approving these apps, and when the users buy the apps they are left with nothing but some scammy chat rooms in the background.”
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@benwood
Ben Wood
on x
Tomorrow's @FT runs with @PatrickMcGee_ 's Apple vs Epic story on front page of its Companies section. It is going to be interesting to see how this case gets resolved. You can read the article here: https://www.ft.com/... ($) https://twitter.com/...
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@petercoffee
Peter Coffee
on x
“Friedman likened @Apple's process of reviewing new apps for the App Store to ‘more like the pretty lady who greets you ...at the Hawaiian airport than the drug-sniffing dog’. He added that Apple was ill-equipped to ‘deflect sophisticated attackers’.” https://ft.com/...
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@mikethebbop
Ira Michael Blonder
on x
Not likely to produce warm fuzzies for either personal data privacy advocates nor cyber security managers: https://www.ft.com/...
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@dhh
@dhh
on x
“A senior Apple engineer compared the defences of its App Store against malicious actors to “bringing a plastic butter knife to a gunfight”.. The revelation could be a significant blow to Apple's defence [that a 30% tax] is necessary to protect consumers"https://www.ft.com/ ...
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
Epic argues that Apple's App Store review process is “cursory” and that Apple doesn't recruit reviewers with sophisticated tech backgrounds.
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
Epic said the volume of apps submitted “does not permit robust review.” As of April 2016 the human review process typically took 13 mins per app and 6 minutes per app update.
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
*Thread* Overnight both @Apple and @EpicGames released hundreds of pages of new documents, containing lots of colour based on discovery and recent depositions. I stayed up reading so you don't have to. Here's what I learnt (couple *bombshells* in here)
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
App Reviewers typically review between 50 to 100 apps per day ... “In certain instances, reviews took less than a minute to review apps.”
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@garjoh_canuck
Garrett Johnson
on x
In Apple's defense, the plastic butter knife it brings to its app review process is the best damn plastic butter knife that a 30% platform take can buy... https://twitter.com/...
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
Eric Friedman, head of Apple's FEAR unit — Fraud Engineering Algorithms and Risk — said in a recent deposition that his team believed the App Review team was inadequate to the risks posed by malicious actors, saying they were “bringing a plastic butter knife to a gun fight.”
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
Certain apps that may have competed with Apple's apps or features, such as Google Voice, were “rejected on pretextual grounds”. (that is, competitive reasons)
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@youngbloodjoe
Joe Youngblood
on x
Basically the App Store is a cash cow monopoly that Apple only uses to attack competition, make boatloads of cash for doing nothing, and doesn't really protect users. https://twitter.com/...
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@dhh
@dhh
on x
Apple's App Store review process is a tollbooth wrapped in security theater. It really makes so many things fall into place after all these years when you think of it like that. IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO WORK! This isn't a ninja crack team spending serious time doing reviews.
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@derloos
Anton Nekhaenko
on x
How any of this justifies 30% is quite a mystery. https://twitter.com/...
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@dhh
@dhh
on x
Apple is at once both overselling the benefits of the App Store reviews (we'll protect you! we're sophisticated!) and underdelivering massively (store is full of obvious scams). Only area where the review process actually works is in collecting fees. Disgraceful process.
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@dhh
@dhh
on x
This thread explains so much. Why the App Store is full of scams, why rulings are so arbitrary, why its impossible to get clear answers. Apple hires essentially unskilled people to do the reviews, yet claims they're necessary to protect people. You can't have it both ways! https:…
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
When the App Store first began, applicants were considered qualified if they “understood how to use a Mac”, “understood how to use an iPhone”, “understood a little about the Apple brand”, “could breathe . . . could think”.
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@patrickmcgee_
Patrick McGee
on x
In current job postings, listed qualifications for App Reviewers primarily include nontechnical skills such as teamwork, curiosity, clear communications and resilience. A thorough knowledge of macOS and iOS is noted as “helpful,” but not a requirement.