Sources shed light on the increasingly personal battle between Tim Cook and Mark Zuckerberg, who in private reportedly said “we need to inflict pain” on Apple
exactly what Apple is attacking FB over.) Depesh Mandalia / @depeshm : Who's signing up for Apple ads?! I love the paradoxical wording: a) the Apple ad platform does not track you b) but don't turn off personalized ads (which uses personal data to personalise ads) because Apple want to track you 🤣 #ios14 #facebookads https://twitter.com/... @corydobbin : The epitome of Apple's entire business model. Knock down all competitors by pretending you're better than them while: 1) doing the same thing they were doing but pretending you aren't, or 2) pretending you are doing it better than them but aren't All likely at a higher cost. https://twitter.com/... Eric Seufert / @eric_seufert : Even if this semantic distinction is recognized / appreciated by consumers (big if!), we're still mixing concepts: “tracking” is an approach, “personalization” is an outcome. Disingenuous for Apple to create a false dichotomy to privilege its own approach & ad network (1/X) https://twitter.com/... Eric Seufert / @eric_seufert : 3/ It's telling that the best defense of Apple's use of this separate settings page, and of the increased reporting data it delivers with its own ASA API vs. SKAdNetwork, is that “Apple will probably improve SKAN at some point to parity with ASA's reporting API” Jason Kint / @jason_kint : Bingo. $$$. It's been in their 10k for years but their lobby of academics, industry influencers and friendly trade press continue to argue (incorrectly) that a higher privacy bar against tracking will make Facebook and Google more dominant. https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/... Jason Kint / @jason_kint : @eric_seufert Research shows people do not want to have their data collected and re-used by parties they don't intend to interact. we worked at w3c across industry to define tracking that way. To your point, personalization means something diff and I appreciate Apple doesn't confuse the terms. @jaketheadnerd : @herrmanndigital I've come to appreciate FB's stance for SMBs on this more and more as it has evolved. Economies have literally been saved/bolstered via ecomm and social advertising. Yet all anyone can ever see is big tech and FB bad. @ow : @karangoel The world's most popular social media apps? People would be pretty upset if Fb/WhatsApp/Instagram were unavailable on iOS (which would also screw facebook but it would be an interesting standoff) @karangoel : I don't like either of these companies, but Facebook is a monopoly with a power-crazy absolutist that must be reined in (like other Big Tech cos). Serious question: exactly what leverage does Facebook have over Apple? https://twitter.com/... Parker / @pt : @galenward Apple is certainly a mixed bag. They do a lot of great work. I buy their products. I am mainly just uncomfortable we are allowing them to speak on behalf of the public on an issue where they are just operating in their best interest. Thomas Claburn / @thomasclaburn : @jason_kint Apple tends to make decisions where actions that appear to be principled and self-interest align. I'll be more impressed when the company voluntarily does something that diminishes its control over its platform and products. Joel Feder / @joelfeder : Because people truly don't understand how much Facebook is actually tracking them. And this will hurt Facebook. https://twitter.com/... Parker / @pt : It's odd to me that Americans are so willing to ignore Apple's self-interest. I wonder if we are more willing to hate FB because social product addictions make us feel bad about ourselves and Apple products still make us feel a lot more good than bad even if we're addicted. Daniel Moch / @_djmoch : I don't know what to call the quote other than, at best, disingenuous. Facebook gives users *some* control over their personal data when it doesn't affect their bottom line https://www.wsj.com/... https://twitter.com/... Jolynn Dellinger / @mindingprivacy : If I had to choose between FB and Apple, it would take less than a nanosecond to choose Apple. If FB wins this clash, businesses have choices. If Apple wins, consumers have choices and at least a long shot at more #privacy. https://www.wsj.com/... Vijay Shekhar Sharma / @vijayshekhar : More than 95% of Indians won't even get to make this choice. https://twitter.com/... Parker / @pt : Zuck learned Chinese just to kiss ass, but in the end was like, “nah, we're not comfortable working for the CCP on their terms.” Cook was like, “how much money? Sign us up!” Apple is looking out for Apple, not for us. https://twitter.com/... @ow : @karangoel I dunno, I thought it would play out that way with the Fortnite thing too but sentiment surprisingly blamed Apple....and Facebook is even better at spin (unfortunately) than Epic Games was 🤷♀️ Parker / @pt : @ow @TechmemeChatter @karangoel Facebook would easily win that one. Apple makes a better phone, but their photo sharing app blows. Steve Kovach / @stevekovach : This'll be an interesting experiment for Facebook. For years, Facebook's thesis has been that people love personalized ads and they're fine giving up their personal information for it. Soon we'll find out how true that is. https://twitter.com/... David Herrmann / @herrmanndigital : This headline is really not what this article is about. I wish journalists would tell more stories about how our economy was saved because of eCommerce, how millions in this world own small businesses thanks to Facebook. https://www.wsj.com/... Vincent Larouche / @vincelarouche : « In private, Mr. Zuckerberg was even harsher. “We need to inflict pain,” he told his team, for treating the company so poorly, according to people familiar with the exchange. » https://www.wsj.com/... Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life : @pt It speaks to the power of the media to shape opinions. Apple pays lip service to human rights & privacy in China and was the tech company that most sucked up to Trump yet because the media feels FB/GOOG stole their revenue, they get the bad coverage. https://www.cnbc.com/... @karangoel : @ow They wouldn't blame Apple if FB took them down though. Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life : @jason_kint @CoryDobbin @DepeshM @kyleprohaska I gave 2 examples where Apple's policies aren't aligned with the W3C's definition of tracking. For the second point, is it tracking if I embed a Google Maps widget in my app and people's usage of the Google Maps widget improves Google's local ads targeting? Jason Kint / @jason_kint : misleading, @CoryDobbin @DepeshM. Apple's moves with IDFA and ITP are focused on tracking prevention. “Tracking” has been clearly defined by W3C and Apple's rollout aligns with it. It's about data collection/re-use by companies users aren't intending to interact. ht @kyleprohaska https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/... Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life : @jason_kint @CoryDobbin @DepeshM @kyleprohaska This is an incorrect conclusion. Apple's policies are misaligned with the W3C definitions in at least two key ways 1. Apple's policies define tracking in their developer documentation as pertaining to ads/data brokers. W3C does not. 2. Apple ignores context if data used for ads. Rene Ritchie / @reneritchie : How about Facebook just inflict consideration and respect on their mutual users? Empathy? Dignity? Treat as as people and not ugly bags of data to be harvested? Ask our consent and offer value in exchange? It's really not about Apple. It's about us. https://twitter.com/... Jason Kint / @jason_kint : Also, I've got issues with Apple's App Store and certainly no fan of Google but it's important to note here Apple's decisions are principle-focused rather than company-focused. Google search collects 1st party data from users intending to interact with Google. Not “tracking.” https://twitter.com/... Bill George / @bill_george : How do you view this war between Facebook and Apple? I will take Cook's integrity over Zuck's success at any cost. What's at stake in the increasingly personal battle between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The future shape of the internet https://www.wsj.com/... Nadim Kobeissi / @kaepora : This is a healthy way to talk about fellow companies implementing privacy-preserving measures https://www.macrumors.com/... John / @jxhnbxnder : Imagine this being your biggest dilemma. https://twitter.com/... Jessica Lessin / @jessicalessin : Some interesting detail here but I am shocked @wsj wrote a major story about Apple v Facebook without mentioning what is truly behind the war: the coming war over the next computing platform: AR/VR/MR. https://www.wsj.com/... Matt Stoller / @matthewstoller : Big tech lobbyists are upset that Apple and Facebook are fighting... “Advisers to the two companies, including law firms and lobbyists, are growing concerned that they won't be able to work for both tech giants, people who work for the firms said.” https://www.wsj.com/... David Wessel / @davidmwessel : Good @wsj yarn at what's going on between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The stakes: The future shape of the internet and which companies will dominate it. https://www.wsj.com/... Pedro Dias / @pedrodias : Zuckerberg and his ethics never disappoint. “Zuckerberg wants to ‘inflict pain’ on Apple for privacy changes” https://appleinsider.com/... Shira Ovide / @shiraovide : What a terrific, richly reported yarn on a battleground of our digital lives. 1 thought: FB vs Apple may not be zero sum. Steve Jobs vowed to destroy Google over Android. But Android was ultimately great for Apple. It made smartphones global & mass market, which helped Apple. https://twitter.com/... Jason Kint / @jason_kint : Excellent report by @dseetharaman @EmilyGlazer @timkhiggins makes it incredibly clear on why Facebook is facing a knock-out punch in its attempt to take on Apple's strong moves for privacy that risk Facebook's surveillance biz model. 1/2 https://www.wsj.com/... Emily Glazer / @emilyglazer : NEW: Inside the animosity between Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and Apple CEO Tim Cook, who are feuding over privacy and dueling visions of the internet. “We need to inflict pain,” Zuckerberg told his team. With @dseetharaman and @timkhiggins https://www.wsj.com/... Christopher Mims / @mims : Facebook Meets Apple in Clash of the Tech Titans—'We Need to Inflict Pain' Lots of eyebrow-raising moments in this omnibus piece on Apple v. Facebook by @dseetharaman @EmilyGlazer @timkhiggins Clear that for Zuckerberg at least, the battle is personal. https://www.wsj.com/... https://twitter.com/... Hussein Kanji / @hkanji : At stake is how the internet will evolve and which companies will dominate it. Facebook and Apple's visions are diverging and increasingly incompatible. https://www.wsj.com/... Matt Mireles / @mattmireles : Tim Cook might be the biggest weapon we have in trying to save our democracy. https://www.wsj.com/... Deepa Seetharaman / @dseetharaman : New Saturday feature w/ @EmilyGlazer & @timkhiggins: We go inside the years-long conflict percolating between Facebook & Apple. https://www.wsj.com/... @wsj : Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg are at odds over privacy, power and dueling visions of the internet. Their rivalry is increasingly personal—and public. https://www.wsj.com/... Chris Mattmann / @chrismattmann : What's at stake in the increasingly personal battle between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The future shape of the internet and which companies will dominate it. https://www.wsj.com/... @hakana : What's at stake in the increasingly personal battle between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The future shape of the internet and which companies will dominate it. https://www.wsj.com/... Deepa Seetharaman / @dseetharaman : Our story describes a tense meeting bw the two CEOs in Sun Valley & the time Zuckerberg told his team that FB needed to “inflict pain” on Apple. Last year, $FB execs including MZ considered joining Epic Games' lawsuit against Apple (FB did support it). https://www.wsj.com/...
Why is Facebook so afraid of this simple opt-in panel Apple will soon build into its devices for every app (not just Facebook)? If tracking people all over the web is harmless or beneficial, shouldn't they be able to convince people to allow it? @Facebook @Apple https://twitt…
(Also Facebook doesn't need my advice, but if I were them, I would focus on Apple in China and Apple collecting billions of dollars a year to enable Google's data-harvesting machine — exactly what Apple is attacking FB over.)
Who's signing up for Apple ads?! I love the paradoxical wording: a) the Apple ad platform does not track you b) but don't turn off personalized ads (which uses personal data to personalise ads) because Apple want to track you 🤣 #ios14 #facebookads https://twitter.com/...
The epitome of Apple's entire business model. Knock down all competitors by pretending you're better than them while: 1) doing the same thing they were doing but pretending you aren't, or 2) pretending you are doing it better than them but aren't All likely at a higher cost. http…
Even if this semantic distinction is recognized / appreciated by consumers (big if!), we're still mixing concepts: “tracking” is an approach, “personalization” is an outcome. Disingenuous for Apple to create a false dichotomy to privilege its own approach & ad network (1/X) https…
3/ It's telling that the best defense of Apple's use of this separate settings page, and of the increased reporting data it delivers with its own ASA API vs. SKAdNetwork, is that “Apple will probably improve SKAN at some point to parity with ASA's reporting API”
@jason_kint @CoryDobbin @DepeshM @kyleprohaska I gave 2 examples where Apple's policies aren't aligned with the W3C's definition of tracking. For the second point, is it tracking if I embed a Google Maps widget in my app and people's usage of the Google Maps widget improves Googl…
Bingo. $$$. It's been in their 10k for years but their lobby of academics, industry influencers and friendly trade press continue to argue (incorrectly) that a higher privacy bar against tracking will make Facebook and Google more dominant. https://twitter.com/... https://twitter…
Also, I've got issues with Apple's App Store and certainly no fan of Google but it's important to note here Apple's decisions are principle-focused rather than company-focused. Google search collects 1st party data from users intending to interact with Google. Not “tracking.” htt…
@eric_seufert Research shows people do not want to have their data collected and re-used by parties they don't intend to interact. we worked at w3c across industry to define tracking that way. To your point, personalization means something diff and I appreciate Apple doesn't conf…
How do you view this war between Facebook and Apple? I will take Cook's integrity over Zuck's success at any cost. What's at stake in the increasingly personal battle between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The future shape of the internet https://www.wsj.com/...
@jason_kint @CoryDobbin @DepeshM @kyleprohaska This is an incorrect conclusion. Apple's policies are misaligned with the W3C definitions in at least two key ways 1. Apple's policies define tracking in their developer documentation as pertaining to ads/data brokers. W3C does not. …
@herrmanndigital I've come to appreciate FB's stance for SMBs on this more and more as it has evolved. Economies have literally been saved/bolstered via ecomm and social advertising. Yet all anyone can ever see is big tech and FB bad.
@karangoel The world's most popular social media apps? People would be pretty upset if Fb/WhatsApp/Instagram were unavailable on iOS (which would also screw facebook but it would be an interesting standoff)
I don't like either of these companies, but Facebook is a monopoly with a power-crazy absolutist that must be reined in (like other Big Tech cos). Serious question: exactly what leverage does Facebook have over Apple? https://twitter.com/...
@galenward Apple is certainly a mixed bag. They do a lot of great work. I buy their products. I am mainly just uncomfortable we are allowing them to speak on behalf of the public on an issue where they are just operating in their best interest.
@jason_kint Apple tends to make decisions where actions that appear to be principled and self-interest align. I'll be more impressed when the company voluntarily does something that diminishes its control over its platform and products.
It's odd to me that Americans are so willing to ignore Apple's self-interest. I wonder if we are more willing to hate FB because social product addictions make us feel bad about ourselves and Apple products still make us feel a lot more good than bad even if we're addicted.
I don't know what to call the quote other than, at best, disingenuous. Facebook gives users *some* control over their personal data when it doesn't affect their bottom line https://www.wsj.com/... https://twitter.com/...
misleading, @CoryDobbin @DepeshM. Apple's moves with IDFA and ITP are focused on tracking prevention. “Tracking” has been clearly defined by W3C and Apple's rollout aligns with it. It's about data collection/re-use by companies users aren't intending to interact. ht @kyleprohaska…
If I had to choose between FB and Apple, it would take less than a nanosecond to choose Apple. If FB wins this clash, businesses have choices. If Apple wins, consumers have choices and at least a long shot at more #privacy. https://www.wsj.com/...
How about Facebook just inflict consideration and respect on their mutual users? Empathy? Dignity? Treat as as people and not ugly bags of data to be harvested? Ask our consent and offer value in exchange? It's really not about Apple. It's about us. https://twitter.com/...
Zuck learned Chinese just to kiss ass, but in the end was like, “nah, we're not comfortable working for the CCP on their terms.” Cook was like, “how much money? Sign us up!” Apple is looking out for Apple, not for us. https://twitter.com/...
@karangoel I dunno, I thought it would play out that way with the Fortnite thing too but sentiment surprisingly blamed Apple....and Facebook is even better at spin (unfortunately) than Epic Games was 🤷♀️
This'll be an interesting experiment for Facebook. For years, Facebook's thesis has been that people love personalized ads and they're fine giving up their personal information for it. Soon we'll find out how true that is. https://twitter.com/...
This headline is really not what this article is about. I wish journalists would tell more stories about how our economy was saved because of eCommerce, how millions in this world own small businesses thanks to Facebook. https://www.wsj.com/...
« In private, Mr. Zuckerberg was even harsher. “We need to inflict pain,” he told his team, for treating the company so poorly, according to people familiar with the exchange. » https://www.wsj.com/...
@pt It speaks to the power of the media to shape opinions. Apple pays lip service to human rights & privacy in China and was the tech company that most sucked up to Trump yet because the media feels FB/GOOG stole their revenue, they get the bad coverage. https://www.cnbc.com/...
Some interesting detail here but I am shocked @wsj wrote a major story about Apple v Facebook without mentioning what is truly behind the war: the coming war over the next computing platform: AR/VR/MR. https://www.wsj.com/...
Big tech lobbyists are upset that Apple and Facebook are fighting... “Advisers to the two companies, including law firms and lobbyists, are growing concerned that they won't be able to work for both tech giants, people who work for the firms said.” https://www.wsj.com/...
Good @wsj yarn at what's going on between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The stakes: The future shape of the internet and which companies will dominate it. https://www.wsj.com/...
What a terrific, richly reported yarn on a battleground of our digital lives. 1 thought: FB vs Apple may not be zero sum. Steve Jobs vowed to destroy Google over Android. But Android was ultimately great for Apple. It made smartphones global & mass market, which helped Apple. htt…
Excellent report by @dseetharaman @EmilyGlazer @timkhiggins makes it incredibly clear on why Facebook is facing a knock-out punch in its attempt to take on Apple's strong moves for privacy that risk Facebook's surveillance biz model. 1/2 https://www.wsj.com/...
NEW: Inside the animosity between Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and Apple CEO Tim Cook, who are feuding over privacy and dueling visions of the internet. “We need to inflict pain,” Zuckerberg told his team. With @dseetharaman and @timkhiggins https://www.wsj.com/...
Facebook Meets Apple in Clash of the Tech Titans—'We Need to Inflict Pain' Lots of eyebrow-raising moments in this omnibus piece on Apple v. Facebook by @dseetharaman @EmilyGlazer @timkhiggins Clear that for Zuckerberg at least, the battle is personal. https://www.wsj.com/... htt…
At stake is how the internet will evolve and which companies will dominate it. Facebook and Apple's visions are diverging and increasingly incompatible. https://www.wsj.com/...
New Saturday feature w/ @EmilyGlazer & @timkhiggins: We go inside the years-long conflict percolating between Facebook & Apple. https://www.wsj.com/...
Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg are at odds over privacy, power and dueling visions of the internet. Their rivalry is increasingly personal—and public. https://www.wsj.com/...
What's at stake in the increasingly personal battle between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The future shape of the internet and which companies will dominate it. https://www.wsj.com/...
What's at stake in the increasingly personal battle between Apple's Tim Cook and Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg? The future shape of the internet and which companies will dominate it. https://www.wsj.com/...
Our story describes a tense meeting bw the two CEOs in Sun Valley & the time Zuckerberg told his team that FB needed to “inflict pain” on Apple. Last year, $FB execs including MZ considered joining Epic Games' lawsuit against Apple (FB did support it). https://www.wsj.com/...