Discussion

• Vox Emily Stewart on x

  8chan, a nexus of radicalization, explained

• @eastdakota Matthew Prince on x

  We just sent notice we are terminating service for 8chan. There comes a time when enough is enough. But this isn't the end. We need to have a broader conversation about addressing the root causes of hate online. https://blog.cloudflare.com/ ...

• @cwarzel Charlie Warzel on x

  the speed with which tech cos change after a bad PR cycle seems like solid proof that none of this is abt principles but abt trying to keep from making hard choices as long as possible. earlier today they argued that keeping 8chan within its network is a “moral obligation” https:…

• @dcbigjohn John R Stanton on x

  Cool cool glad we know that 20 dead people is your line in the sand for taking money from racist murderers. https://twitter.com/...

• @reformedbroker Downtown Josh Brown on x

  This is the CEO of Cloudflare. He's raised $330 million from VC's and Franklin Templeton among others and has reportedly filed a confidential S-1 to go public next month. Hard to do that with mass murderers uploading their manifestos before killing sprees. https://twitter.com/...

• @danrayburn Dan Rayburn on x

  Cloudflare is terminating DDoS services for 8chn, saying they “draw the line at platforms that have demonstrated they directly inspire tragic events,” yet experts say they are still providing services for terror groups like the Taliban, as reported in 2018 https://www.huffpost.co…

• @josephfcox Joseph Cox on x

  New: spoke to Cloudflare's lawyer about booting certain customers, including 8chan because of El Paso, etc. He said private companies w/o expertise shouldn't decide what stays and goes. Then Prince, CEO, said should keep it up to help law enforcement https://www.vice.com/...

• @tomwarren Tom Warren on x

  sites like 8ch are incredibly valuable to service providers like Cloudflare as they're attacked so frequently that you can improve pattern recognition for all customers. I'm sure 8ch will struggle short term and another provider will pick it up for its own gain https://twitter.co…

• @josephfcox Joseph Cox on x

  Here is Cloudflare's blog post announcing it is terminating service to 8chan. “The action we take today won't fix hate online. It will almost certainly not even remove 8chan from the Internet. But it is the right thing to do. Hate online is a real issue” https://blog.cloudflare.c…

• @davidakaye David Kaye on x

  2 questions for @Cloudflare @eastdakota: is this a new principle/std, and is it applicable across your global network? & if so, how do you monitor? (nb: i'm not opposed to the decision but curious abt its scalability) https://twitter.com/...

• @josephfcox Joseph Cox on x

  The lack of coherence at Cloudflare's top levels is pretty stark. Talk to general counsel, say they won't ban unless illegal, concerned about operating at scale. CEO eventually decides to pull plug on 8chan himself after debating all day.

• @panzer Matthew Panzarino on x

  Incredibly difficult call https://twitter.com/...

• @rvawonk Caroline Orr on x

  (!!!) Cloud fare is dropping 8chan, effective at midnight (PDT). “Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.” https://twitter.com/...

• @qjurecic Quinta Jurecic on x

  This is, imo, not bad as far as limiting principles go: “they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths.” https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/ ...

• @karaswisher Kara Swisher on x

  While this move is the correct one, to be clear, enough was enough a very very long time ago. So, welcome to the conversation that has already been taking place for a while now. https://twitter.com/...

• @daveleebbc Dave Lee on x

  8chan admin says site is moving to a different security firm, @bitmitigate, based in Washington state. Company's bio says it has a “proven commitment to liberty”. Have approached for comment. https://twitter.com/...

• @cwarzel Charlie Warzel on x

  cloudflare's argument seems viable only in a perfect world where visibility for law enforcement would help identify some of the people who're plotting and cheering on terrorism. but LE doesn't seem to be all over it and whatever current monitoring they're doing isn't working http…

• Vox Jane Coaston on x

  The top House Republican is blaming video games for the weekend's mass shootings

• @hw_beat_that Fredrick Brennan on x

  Thank you so much @CloudFlare. Finally this nightmare might have an end. I just want to go back to making my fonts in peace and not have to worry about getting phone calls from CNN/New York Times every time a mass shooting happens. They could have prevented this and chose not to.

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  Update: I talked to Cloudflare CEO @eastdakota, who said he is undecided about whether or not to allow 8chan to continue using its DDOS protection service (which effectively allows the site to stay online) https://www.nytimes.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  @eastdakota There's a big, interesting debate here about which layers of the internet should be responsible for banning extreme content. Everyone (mostly) agrees ISPs like Comcast shouldn't. Everyone (mostly) agrees social networks like Facebook should. Cloudflare is somewhere in…

• @pinboard @pinboard on x

  I see lots of people dunking on @cloudflare today without addressing the actual argument they make for keeping 8chan—that law enforcement asks them to keep such sites, because this gives them more visibility into them. Whatever you think of the argument, ignoring it is dishonest.…

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  Breaking: Cloudflare CEO @eastdakota tells me the company is cutting off 8chan's access to its DDOS protection service after all, a big reversal from earlier in the day. Story update TK.

• @juliacarriew Julia Carrie Wong on x

  @Cloudflare @eastdakota Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince says that his decision is not about free speech or making money. Instead, he says keeping 8chan within Cloudflare's network facilitates monitoring of the site and cooperation with law enforcement. https://www.theguardian.com/ …

• @donie Donie O'Sullivan on x

  This Cloudflare decision feels like an important moment. They are setting a precedent. A precedent they themselves are very uncomfortable with.

• @ericajoy Erica Joy on x

  well here's me moving all my domains off @hover as soon as i get back to a computer. https://twitter.com/...

• @dnvolz Dustin Volz on x

  Cloudflare took the same step two years ago, banning the Daily Stormer after Charlottesville. Then, like now, the company agonized over the decision. “Today, the Daily Stormer is still available and still disgusting. They have bragged that they have more readers than ever.” https…

• @staska Stasys Bielinis on x

  The weirdest thing I learned today? It's that the guy who now owns and runs 8chan, and manager of public policy at the internet's #3 accredited registrar, Tucows, are neighbours... in Philippines Make of it what you will: https://www.techmeme.com/... https://en.wikipedia.org/...

• @daniel_sugarman Daniel Sugarman on x

  8chan creator: “thought 4chan had become too restrictive & wanted to create a place where all free speech, no matter how toxic, would be allowed.” Also 8chan creator: *oh no 8chan has turned into a haven for Nazis, HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN* https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @rmac18 Ryan Mac on x

  As several commenters have noted, Cloudflare is heading toward an IPO later this year. Not a great look to public investors if you're defending the go-to site for extremist shooter manifestos.

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  @eastdakota 8chan founder Fredrick Brennan reacts to Cloudflare's decision to stop protecting the site. https://twitter.com/...

• @lorenzofb Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on x

  The terrorist who went on a killing spree in El Paso used a CloudFlare customer racist website to announce his attack. CloudFlare says protecting sites like that is a “moral obligation.” #NotTheOnion https://www.vice.com/...

• @yoda Drew Olanoff on x

  Amazing that Cloudflare's breaking point was “more dead people”

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  @eastdakota Matthew is a thoughtful CEO (he wrote this after banning the Daily Stormer post-Charlottesville: https://t.co/...) and his is not the normal free speech argument. He's arguing, basically, that an evil site law enforcement can monitor is better than one it can't.

• @shawnhubler Shawn Hubler on x

  “Cloudflare, a San Francisco-based firm that helps web companies defend against cyberattacks, has continued to work with 8chan, saying it serves websites regardless of their content.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @mattdpearce Matt Pearce on x

  Cloudfare is not going to drop its support of 8chan despite this being the third time an attacker has posted a manifesto to the site, @juliacarriew reports. (Without Cloudflare, vigilantes would probably DDoS 8chan into oblivion.) https://www.theguardian.com/ ...

• @pinboard @pinboard on x

  @Cloudflare Let me be a little less oblique. There are many people who work at @cloudflare besides the CEO. If you can persuade that group to take 8chan down, they will do it, and the CEO can't gainsay it. So engaging that group on terms other than “your company is evil” has some…

• @juliacarriew Julia Carrie Wong on x

  Here's my story on 8chan's links to El Paso, Poway and Christchurch, including an interview with @Cloudflare CEO @eastdakota about why he considers keeping the site in Cloudflare's network a “moral obligation” https://www.theguardian.com/ ...

• @bykowicz Julie Bykowicz on x

  He talked to WSJ about this back in March. Interesting how technology & social media creators keep turning on their very own creations. https://www.wsj.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @martinsfp Martin Sfp Bryant on x

  8chan's founder wants the site's owners to shut it down. It's not the first time he's expressed regret about his creation https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @scottbix Scott Bixby on x

  “Shut the site down,” Brennan said. “It's not doing the world any good. It's a complete negative to everybody except the users that are there. And you know what? It's a negative to them, too. They just don't realize it.” https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  I talked to the founder and former admin of 8chan this morning. He told me he wants the site to be shut down, after being involved in 3 mass shootings this year. https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @shonaghosh Shona Ghosh on x

  Mmmmmaybe, don't think this piece acknowledges the weird specificities of each messageboard culture. I don't think these can be easily copied and pasted to new places. https://twitter.com/...

• @gitagovinda MK Ulta on x

  Cloudfare is doing the right thing but be aware that... https://twitter.com/...

• @unlikelywords Aaron Cohen on x

  This is the equivalent of GOP politicians throwing their hands up and saying, “What can you do?” Obviously there's not one solution to the problem of white nationalist gun violence, but the idea we shouldn't do the obvious/easy stuff first is absurd. https://twitter.com/...

• @kaludiasays Klaudia Amenbar on x

  yeah we know the problem isn't 8chan but, much like not impeaching the president, not shutting down places that enable and allow this kind of behavior is why we're here in the first place and why Americans are like this https://twitter.com/...

• @adambanksdotcom Adam Banks on x

  Think smart, make them switch to 16chan, then 32chan, they think it's fine but just seven days later their URL is bigger than the known universe https://twitter.com/...

• @gregotto Greg Otto on x

  Saying “if 8chan is banned, they will go somewhere else” is the equivalent of saying “if guns are banned, they'll still be used.” it's about making it harder for scum to do scummy things. How is this so hard to grasp https://www.buzzfeednews.com/ ...

• @chronotope Aram Zucker-Scharff on x

  I think the harder we make it to operate the better. I think that to do otherwise is to imply a sort of approval, especially to that type of user, it allows them to spin conspiracy theories ‘well, if they disapprove, why are we still here’ https://twitter.com/...

• @sivavaid Siva Vaidhyanathan on x

  Too simple. There is value in fracturing a terrorist movement even if it's temporary. And there is value in issuing a warning to the next chan developers that shame and trouble will follow. https://twitter.com/...

• @sbee_champion @sbee_champion on x

  ask milo and loomer if deplatforming works https://twitter.com/...

• @josephfcox Joseph Cox on x

  Cloudflare's lawyer, pointing to when the company stopped services for Daily Stormer, says Cloudflare's impact was small because Daily Stormer still online. But it would an exceptionally bumpy ride for the site https://www.vice.com/... pic.twitter.com/SYntLpeuxV

• @mike_salter Michael Salter on x

  This is the standard anti-regulation argument, and it's false. The culture of a platform is driven by its architecture and administration. When a bad site is shut down, its culture doesn't magically “migrate” elsewhere, particularly if the alternative sites are harder to access. …

• @kebrightbill Kathryn Brightbill on x

  @Techmeme @broderick Not everyone migrated from 4chan, and not not everyone migrated to Voat when Reddit started cracking down on hate subs. Cracking down does help minimize harm, especially if they keep losing hosting providers.

• @ryanmruark @ryanmruark on x

  @Techmeme @broderick Fine, whatever, at least then you disintegrate the network, demean their spirits and deplete their resources. Rinse, repeat, but that is what it takes. Let these hatemongers scream into the wind over and over and over again until they are too exhausted to con…

• @bendreyfuss Ben Dreyfuss on x

  @ClaraJeffery I think @broderick makes a lot of really good points here https://www.buzzfeednews.com/ ...

• @danieljkelley Daniel Kelley on x

  Maybe. But let's try and see what happens. https://twitter.com/...

• @jerry1250 Flazlo on x

  @Techmeme @broderick “If I paint my house, I'll just have to paint it again in 3 years or so.”

• @cwarzel Charlie Warzel on x

  Ryan captures the futility of shutting down 8chan. I think we should make things miserable and difficult as possible for white nationalists terrorits online. But the solution will have to be so much bigger than just relying on web hosters to stamp it out https://www.buzzfeednews.…

• @hyghwilliam Will Hygh on x

  @Techmeme @broderick If that was the case Loomer, Milo, etc. wouldn't be whining about getting booted off of twitter and other mainstream social media platforms. There is a penalty to being deplatformed.

• @thegrugq Thaddeus E. Grugq on x

  White supremacy is people, it's people https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @ourstorystudio @ourstorystudio on x

  Sure. The difference is we're not trying to blow such radicals off the planet. But deter their ability to organize, terrorize, recruit. There may not be a “done.” Fine. But we need not make it so damn easy, seamless. Permissible, with a free stage. https://twitter.com/...

• @stewartsmithtwt @stewartsmithtwt on x

  When the O&A Reddit was shut down a few months back, the hateful users from there briefly tried one more sub, but after that sub's banning they've pretty much scattered. It's about making it harder to access, especially for potential recruits. That's why we deplatform. https://tw…

• Vox Shirin Ghaffary on x

  Here's how Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and 8chan handle white supremacist content

• @tim_cook Tim Cook on x

  I'm heartbroken about what's happening in my country. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. It's time for good people with different views to stop finger pointing and come together to address this violence for the good of our country.

• @oneunderscore__ Ben Collins on x

  This is an outstanding piece by @IwriteOK about the concept of “high scores” on 8chan, where white nationalist terror has been gamified by lonely white men seeking identity and acclaim, using the only vocabulary and success metric they know. https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @newyorker @newyorker on x

  White-supremacist terrorism is nothing new, but this sickeningly specific instantiation of it—lone shooter, assault rifle, online manifesto, a link to a live stream—appears to be contagious. https://www.newyorker.com/...

• @davezatz Dave Zatz on x

  @Techmeme 'Let's do nothing because it's just not possible to stop something' seems to be a common refrain.

• @walldo Brandon Wall on x

  “there's nothing particularly special about 8chan, there are no content algorithms, hosting technology immaterial. The only thing radicalizing 8chan users are other 8chan users.” https://www.buzzfeednews.com/ ...

• @tribelaw Laurence Tribe on x

  We need to think hard about how the virality of evil might be combatted without sacrificing freedom of speech https://www.newyorker.com/...

• @axios @axios on x

  The founder of 8chan has called for the site to be shut down after the suspected terrorist in the El Paso mass shooting posted an anti-immigrant manifesto on the message board shortly before killing 20 people, the Washington Post reports. https://www.axios.com/...

• @andrewmarantz Andrew Marantz on x

  8chan users are passing around a Google spreadsheet listing recent mass shootings: date, location, number of kills. It's hard to imagine that this list won't keep growing. New by me: https://www.newyorker.com/...

• @burnettrm Robert Meyer Burnett on x

  White Nationalist Terrorism. Currently the greatest domestic threat facing our nation. We need to call it what it is, and empower our intelligence agencies to combat it with all available resources: https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @borzou Borzou Daragahi on x

  'Ever since the Christchurch shooting spree, 8chan users have commented regularly on Brenton Tarrant's high bodycount, and made references to their desire to “beat his high score”.' https://www.bellingcat.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @therickwilson Rick Wilson on x

  If we found an Islamic terrorist hub called, let's just say...JihadChan, where Muslim terrorists were indoctrinated and recruited, where they posted their manifestos, and were cheered on and supported, we'd flood the zone with everything from LE to cyber to JDAMS.

• @ekp Ellen K. Pao on x

  How many people does it take to end internet hate and platform influence? We now have 8chan founder, Twitter's @ev, Facebook's @chrishughes and more. When do we start listening? https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @tvietor08 Tommy Vietor on x

  Three mass shootings — El Paso, the mosque killings in Christchurch, New Zealand, and the synagogue shooting in Poway, Calif. — have been announced in advance on 8chan, often accompanied by racist writings that seem engineered to go viral on the internet. https://www.nytimes.com/…

• @_lilchen @_lilchen on x

  cw: violence “The site remains nearly completely unmoderated... Users on 8chan frequently lionize mass shooters using jokey internet vernacular, referring to their body counts as “high scores” and creating memes praising the killers.” https://twitter.com/...

• @davidgross_man David Grossman on x

  I feel like this sums up a lot of the internet https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @jeffjohnroberts Jeff Roberts on x

  8Chan has become the domestic version of Al Qaeda propaganda sites This will be more grist for the Section 230 debate https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @3l3v3nth @3l3v3nth on x

  Gamification works or the big tech companies wouldn't use it to make their employees ‘feel’ like they are being treated fair The El Paso Shooting and the Gamification of Terror https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @noahpinion Noah Smith on x

  Thread. The Daily Stormer was essentially chased off the web, why not 8chan? https://twitter.com/...

• @markseibel Mark Seibel on x

  8chan's founder tells ⁦@drewharwell⁩ the suspected shooter's name is on the 8chan post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @juliacarriew Julia Carrie Wong on x

  If the 8chan document is confirmed, El Paso will be the third mass shooting announced on 8chan in advance in less than six months, targeting Muslims, Jews, and Latinos respectively. On 8chan right now, the suspect is being cheered as “our guy”

• @korybing @korybing on x

  https://slate.com/... it won't solve the problem but classifying places like this as hate-groups and disbanding them sure would help.

• @joshuahol Joshua Holland on x

  I remember when the Constitution wasn't a suicide pact. That was about giving criminal suspects due process. “8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now” https://slate.com/...

• @drogon_dracarys Drogon on x

  The El Paso shooting also prompted [8chan's] founder early Sunday to urge its current owners to “do the world a favor and shut it off.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/ ...

• @drewharwell Drew Harwell on x

  New: Three mass shootings this year began with hateful rants on 8chan. Its founder told me the site is a haven for “domestic terrorists” and that its owner “should do the world a favor and shut it down” https://wapo.st/2KhKYEm

• @slate @slate on x

  The suspected El Paso shooter appears to have followed the same internet playbook as the Christchurch, New Zealand, murderer. https://slate.com/...

• @drleostrauss Leo Strauss on x

  4chan from 2011 on in many *niche* ways most effective intelligence service in world. 8chan began 2013 after 4chan banned Gamergate; an even more chaotic version. Striking how @cnn @msnbc @nytimes @washingtonpost et al. feature almost zero expertise re these online vectors. https…

• @wisenbergsol Solomon L. Wisenberg on x

  You can be a lone-wolf loser and be radicalized through an on-line ecosystem of hate. They are not mutually exclusive concepts. https://twitter.com/...

• @jason_kint Jason Kint on x

  I honestly didn't believe this and just checked for myself. Newsrooms are taking up #NoNotoriety by not publishing killer's identities meanwhile Drudge is publishing the killer's manifesto in full. I know sites love Drudge's traffic but this is a toxic move in every way. https://…

• @nycjim Jim Roberts on x

  How 8chan became a meme-filled refuge for hate and the go-to place for white nationalists to post their manifestos. https://slate.com/...

• @mattdpearce Matt Pearce on x

  Bellingcat reports this is the third time this year that an attacker has posted on 8chan's /pol channel before their attack: https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @alexstamos Alex Stamos on x

  The online WS radicalization cycle starts with watching slightly edgy videos and ends with Christchurch/Poway/Gilroy/El Paso. This can be disrupted at several points, but a good start would be the responsible tech companies blockading 8chan and the like: https://fsi-live.s3.us-we…

• @ninadschick Nina Schick on x

  “This is the way far right terrorism works: it is foolish, bordering on suicidal, to attribute attacks like the El Paso shooting...to “lone wolves”. [The shooter was] radicalized in an ecosystem of right-wing terror that deliberately seeks to inspire such massacres.” https://twit…

• @althecat Alastair Thompson on x

  There's a direct line between Christchurch and this latest obscenity. The gamification of mass killing inside 8chan. https://twitter.com/...

• @ladyred_6 Sniper Barbie on x

  “The most important takeaways from the El Paso shooting: 8chan's /pol board continues to deliberately radicalize mass shooters. The act of massacring innocents has been gamified. This second point is illustrated clearly by some comments found online in the wake of this shooting” …

• @nfergus Niall Ferguson on x

  This is the most insightful commentary I have read tonight on the horrific massacre in El Paso: “The El Paso Shooting and the Gamification of Terror” - bellingcat https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @walterolson Walter Olson on x

  “It is foolish, bordering on suicidal, to attribute attacks like [El Paso and Gilroy] to “lone wolves”. Both shooters were radicalized in an ecosystem of right-wing terror that deliberately seeks to inspire such massacres.” https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @bellingcat @bellingcat on x

  We've just published the newest piece from @IwriteOK, who wrote on the El Paso shooter and the sadly predictable role of 8chan in yet another white supremacist rampage in America. https://www.bellingcat.com/...

• @cwarzel Charlie Warzel on x

  i dont claim to know what the answer is. perhaps driving them from this community could have an intense effect to tamp down. but, as this piece notes, there's something that feels different since christchurch. worried these communities are super resilient https://www.bellingcat.c…

• @mikertrice Michael R. Trice, PhD on x

  The role /pol (on 4chan & 8chan) has played over the last decade in manifesting real consequences from online hate should not be overlooked. https://twitter.com/...

• @capitolfax Rich Miller on x

  “There will be more killers, more gleeful celebration of body counts on 8chan, and more bloody attempts to beat the last killer's ‘high score’” https://twitter.com/...

• @adamconover Adam Conover on x

  Essential context on how online communities are encouraging and game-ifying terrorist violence. https://www.bellingcat.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @rajit_h Rajit Hewagama on x

  “What we see here is evidence of the only real innovation 8chan has brought to global terrorism: the gamification of mass violence. We see this not just in the references to “high scores”, but in the very way the Christchurch shooting was carried out” #ElPaso https://twitter.com/…