Discussion

• @bobbyallyn @bobbyallyn on threads

  If CSAM take-down requests have been ignored for years, how has Telegram survived the Apple/Google's app store review process?

• @bobbyallyn @bobbyallyn on threads

  Could just be wishful thinking, but there's a feeling among groups that fight CSAM that the Durov arrest in France is going to break the dam, energizing state AGs and the DOJ to go after Durov/Telegram

• @brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads

  Okay, one more thing abt TG.  Underneath the political-level acrimony btw platforms & governments there is real collaboration on the worst harms.  When Meta & GOOG get legit subpoenas, they respond.  They also push back on garbage ones.  It's a professional give & take.  Everyone…

• @brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads

  Why don't people understand Telegram's centrality to the internets most severe harms?  I think the tech media has a lot to answer for—because it covers business as much as tech and biz much more than the harms facilitated by tech.  So it covers those harms when they manifest on F…

• @brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads

  We dont know all the details about Durov's arrest in France.  But beware the frame that Telegram just had light content moderation, which led to this.  That understates Telegram's decade-long centrality to terrorist groups and child predators...and more recent adoption by hate gr…

• @renee.diresta Renee DiResta on threads

  Now that the charges have actually been announced, Durov and Telegram are not trending on X. How can this be?  All of the Content Moderation Explainers suddenly silent...

• @brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads

  The Durov discourse is a reminder that ‘Trust & Safety’ & ‘Content Moderation’ are not synonyms.  Content Mod is a big concept: it might mean algorithmic prioritization, addressing some kinds of spam, removing bullying, taking down terrorist propaganda, etc.  But T&S is broader s…

• @benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads

  One of the most interesting things about Telegram is how many people in tech are under the impression that it uses E2E encryption when it does not.  Telegram groups do not use E2EE.  That appears to be why the French just arrested the CEO - because he actually could read the CSAM…

• @anneapplebaum2000 Anne Applebaum on threads

  Maybe France just drew the line at terrorist recruitment

• @edward.dowling Edward Dowling on threads

  The arrest of the Telegram CEO isn't a risk to other social media platforms.  I've worked directly on every part of the apparatus Meta has to detect and take action on harms, including CSAM.  We invest a staggering amount and are the largest reporters of this content to law enfor…

• @reckless1280 Nilay Patel on threads

  It's funny that Elon doesn't realize the Telegram CEO getting arrested is entirely consistent with his (weird, bad) free speech definition that governments should just pass speech laws - laws he complies with in countries around the world

• @sriramk Sriram Krishnan on threads

  If the reports are accurate and the arrest of Pavel Durov is over lack of moderation on Telegram this is a pretty unprecedented escalation on how governments view tech leaders and their companies when it comes to online discourse.  Ironically could push a lot more people to e2e e…

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  Over the years I've heard dozens of theories about which nation-states were gaining access to that giant mousetrap full of data they'd built. I have no idea if any of those theories were true. Maybe none were, maybe they all were.

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  So by all means be angry that France is using weird legal powers to arrest Durov. It feels legitimately bad. But don't lionize these people. They knew exactly what the stakes were and they could have done real things to protect their vulnerable users. They just didn't.

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  What I do know is that if you build a giant data vacuum cleaner and market it to all sorts of folks that would be obvious targets for spying, then you're pretty much begging to have someone come after the resulting pile of data. With or without your cooperation.

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  You can believe that Telegram was malicious in doing this. You can assume they were just negligent. I don't care: the outcomes are all really, really bad.

• @whalepanda @whalepanda on x

  Pavel Durov was one of the first “foreigners” to get the UAE citizenship. It's still very hard to get and it basically has to be rewarded personally by the Sheikh. Telegram has its offices in Dubai so I'm sure they're motivated to help Durov. Question is how France is going to

• @craigmurrayorg Craig Murray on x

  This is precisely the same as holding the postman responsible for the content of letters he delivers. Utterly surreal.

• @balajis Balaji on x

  The UAE is closely following Durov's case. France may not be able to hold him prisoner for long. [image]

• @maxvonthun Max von Thun on x

  No doubt Telegram is a dark place, but everything it's accused of enabling - from fraud & drug dealing to terrorism & CSAM - is also rife on X/FB/WhatsApp etc. Making an example of a minor Russian-owned platform is just a lot easier than holding Musk, Zuckerberg & co to account.

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  I hope that the arrest of Pavel Durov does not lead to him or Telegram being held up as some hero of privacy. Telegram has consistently acted to collect huge amounts of unnecessary private data on their servers, and their only measure to protect it was “trust us.”

• @wikileaks @wikileaks on x

  12 charges against Telegram CEO Pavel Durov include “providing cryptology services aiming to ensure confidentiality without certified declaration” and six counts of “complicity” with alleged criminal activity by Telegram users FR & EN https://www.tribunal-de-paris.justice.f r/ ..…

• @emptywheel @emptywheel on x

  Next, what his the history and intent of these encryption laws? Are they akin to US 951 and 622 laws, meant to provide means to prosecute spying and similar? There's no mention in this doc of complicity with RU. Is this a substitute? [image]

• @rmac18 Ryan Mac on x

  Elon Musk has been vocal in his support of Pavel Durov and suggested that the Telegram chief was arrested over his support of “free speech.” But Musk has been a longtime Telegram and Durov fan. When he took over Twitter, he and his advisors wanted to know why Twitter couldn't [im…

• @mikebenzcyber Mike Benz on x

  This is how it's done, tho unclear how much leverage UAE will be able to bring to bear. But dare I say the United Arab Emirates are already doing more for Internet freedom here than both US Democrats controlling the State Dept and US Republicans controlling the @HouseForeignGOP.

• @tylerdurden Tyler on x

  Zuckerberg sold your information so he's a free man. Pavel Durov didn't, so he's in jail. It's this simple.

• @andyyen Andy Yen on x

  The unsealed charges against Durov are insane. If sustained, I don't see how tech founders could possibly travel to France, much less hire in France. This is economic suicide and is rapidly and permanently changing the perception of founders and investors.

• @mofauae @mofauae on x

  UAE closely following case of Pavel Durov https://www.mofa.gov.ae/...

• @emptywheel @emptywheel on x

  Here are some questions abt the Pavel Durov charges which would need to be address for American people to understand what's going on. First, are these 6 “complicité” charges, for organized crime (X2), CSAM (X2), drugs, hacking tools, more akin to aid and abet or conspiracy? [imag…

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x

  You can have end to end encryption or you can have content moderation. If you have neither and don't respond to law enforcement when it comes to crimes being committed on your platform, governments will take matters into their own hands. [image]

• @esaagar Saagar Enjeti on x

  Pretty clear reading this charges list against Pavel Durov it is the literal kitchen sink of anything they can even remotely try and make stick Only confirms in my mind that this is a political persecution

• @jameeljaffer Jameel Jaffer on x

  It's hard to know how to feel about the Durov arrest without knowing how the French government is distinguishing Telegram from, say, Twitter or TikTok or even Signal. Not saying there aren't distinctions to be drawn, but so far the French government hasn't drawn them. /1

• r/anime_titties r on reddit

  ‘Russians do everything via Telegram.’ Pavel Durov's arrest upends Kremlin military comms.

• @jasonkoebler Jason Koebler on threads

  Conservatives have been championing Telegram as a more ideologically aligned alternative to Signal, and so they are trying to paint Durov's arrest as being politically motivated / designed to censor conservatives.  To be clear, Telegram is much less secure than Signal (!!) https:…

• @nordbergj Jenny Nordberg on x

  Feel like I'm missing something crucial here — why and how can France just take him into custody? It totally upends the (American) idea that owners of platforms aren't responsible for content. Pls explain? Can Zuckerberg travel to France now? Or Elon? https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @foxcahn Albert Fox Cahn on x

  This is your periodic reminder the Telegram really is NOT securely encrypted... https://www.nytimes.com/... #telegram

• @paulmozur Paul Mozur on x

  Our profile of Telegram founder Pavel Durov: prolific sperm donor, practiced troll, and possessor of an impressive six pack. His rebellious streak and commitment to a code that privacy trumps moderation made Telegram huge, and put a target on his back. https://www.nytimes.com/...

• @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x

  For years people begged them to roll out even rudimentary default encryption, and they pretty aggressively did not of that. Their response was to move their data centers to various middle eastern countries, and to argue that this made your data safe. Somehow.

• @kevincollier@mastodon.social Kevin Collier on mastodon

  Politico reporting Macron is a longtime Telegram user.  People speculate about Musk having access to everyone's DMs, a fair concern, but don't forget that Durov's team can see any Telegram message save (supposedly) the ones set to disappear/with secret chat turned on.  —  https:/…

• @blowdart.me Barry Dorrans on bluesky

  Given that in France, under the “Law regarding Confidence in the Digital Economy” you have to declare if you're using cryptography to secure storage or transmission of data, using telegram which definitely doesn't except in DMs (where even then you have to turn it on) is quite ap…

• @moxie Moxie Marlinspike on x

  This could get crazy if true. Telegram messages are not encrypted. France is trying to arrest the CEO of a Russian team that has plaintext access to every message the French president has ever sent or received.. “Macron has been a Telegram user since...” https://www.politico.eu/.…

• @tarunchitra Tarun Chitra on x

  First Telegram, Second Mistral, and then ______________ (I've been embarrassed about being American for privacy violations by the government for years — but I've never thought, 'thank fucking god I'm not French' until this week)

• @msolletty Marion Solletty on x

  On Monday, while Telegram founder Pavel Durov was in French police custody, Emmanuel Macron was shown as having been connected to the messaging platform “recently,” Inside France's love-hate relationship with Telegram by @Victorglaf & the gang https://www.politico.eu/...

• @lorenzofb Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on x

  So Macron went from having his iPhone hacked with Pegasus (presumably by Moroccan spies) to then use Telegram? He basically switched the game skill level for his enemies from “hurt me plenty” to “I'm too young to die.”

• @ghaffal Al Ghaff on x

  Really hope French & European politicians now realise the importance of #E2EE messaging! #Macron is an avid #Telegram user. France has now arrested the CEO of a team with plaintext access to every message the French president has ever sent or received. https://www.politico.eu/...

• @ebothorel Éric Bothorel on x

  Bothorel described Telegram's protection levels as “not the best, but not the worst,” while underlining that Olvid, a 🇫🇷 encrypted messaging platform which the prime minister had asked cabinet members to use in lieu of Telegram, “offered more guarantees.” https://www.politico.eu/…

• @jeffstone500 Jeff Stone on x

  new for @BW: Shootings + plots against US power stations are way up since a white supremacist network distributed instructions on how extremists can cause havoc. The feds are worried about more attacks like the one that killed someone in North Carolina. https://www.bloomberg.com/…

• r/technology r on reddit

  Far-Right ‘Terrorgram’ Chatrooms Are Fueling a Wave of Power Grid Attacks

• r/law r on reddit

  Far-Right ‘Terrorgram’ Chatrooms Are Fueling a Wave of Power Grid Attacks |  Why is our Justice System just letting these chatrooms continue? …

• r/politics r on reddit

  Far-Right ‘Terrorgram’ Chatrooms Are Fueling a Wave of Power Grid Attacks

• r/conservativeterrorism r on reddit

  Far-Right ‘Terrorgram’ Chatrooms Are Fueling a Wave of Power Grid Attacks

• @katienotopoulos Katie Notopoulos on threads

  This is definitely true, and it's a symptom of US tech media's bias of ignoring things that aren't mainly popular in the US (see: WhatsApp).  Also lack of coverage of things that aren't for adults — Roblox has more daily active users than TikTok, but is rarely covered for example

• @digiphile Alex Howard on threads

  This is not the “end of global social media,” as @semaforben suggested, but it may be the beginning of the end of impunity for tech billionaires who behave as if they are beyond the reach of accountability for harms that their unregulated platforms cause offline. https://civic-te…

• @brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads

  For sure.  I really don't mean to throw stones - covering a beat as diverse as tech (or even just how nasty stuff manifests on tech) is impossible to do comprehensively.  But that means the prioritization choices create gaps in the coverage.  It's even fair to say that those choi…

• @kevincollier@mastodon.social Kevin Collier on mastodon

  I think France's public handling of this has been disastrous.  The charges against Durov may be serious and entirely justified.  But 48 hours after arresting the head of a major platform, and no official charges announced?  Just a Macron statement on X and a LE official on Linked…

• @emmanuelmacron Emmanuel Macron on x

  I have seen false information regarding France following the arrest of Pavel Durov. France is deeply committed to freedom of expression and communication, to innovation, and to the spirit of entrepreneurship. It will remain so. In a state governed by the rule of law,

• @elonmusk Elon Musk on x

  @EmmanuelMacron It would be helpful to the global public to understand more details about why he was arrested

• @jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x

  Editorializing: appears France may have been caught by surprise by the immediate & global reaction and pressure.  It will be important to hear a lot more from the French authorities on this case soon.

• @chrispavlovski Chris Pavlovski on x

  When you say you are committed to freedom of expression, you are lying. We have a letter from France that proves this, without a doubt. We had to shutdown Rumble in France because you have NO committment to freedom of expression.

• @kaepora Nadim Kobeissi on x

  Weird how Signal's president @mer__edith, who's been spending the entire summer in Paris, France, ostensibly championing private and open communication and taking up every single available media interview, hasn't said a word on Durov's arrest

• r/worldnews r on reddit

  Macron on Telegram CEO's arrest: French government was not involved