French President Emmanuel Macron says the government was not involved in the arrest of Telegram CEO Pavel Durov and “this is in no way a political decision”

French president condemns “false information” as Pavel Durov's detention in Paris triggers global outcry.

Politico 2024-08-26 Victor Goury-Laffont

Discussion

@kevincollier@mastodon.social Kevin Collier on mastodon
I think France's public handling of this has been disastrous. The charges against Durov may be serious and entirely justified. But 48 hours after arresting the head of a major platform, and no official charges announced? Just a Macron statement on X and a LE official on Linked…
@emmanuelmacron Emmanuel Macron on x
I have seen false information regarding France following the arrest of Pavel Durov. France is deeply committed to freedom of expression and communication, to innovation, and to the spirit of entrepreneurship. It will remain so. In a state governed by the rule of law,
@jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x
UPDATE on #Telegram CEO Pavel Durov's detention: Statement from the French President @EmmanuelMacron just now.👇 Editorializing: appears France may have been caught by surprise by the immediate & global reaction and pressure. It will be important to hear a lot more from the [image…
@chrispavlovski Chris Pavlovski on x
When you say you are committed to freedom of expression, you are lying. We have a letter from France that proves this, without a doubt. We had to shutdown Rumble in France because you have NO committment to freedom of expression.
@kaepora Nadim Kobeissi on x
Weird how Signal's president @mer__edith, who's been spending the entire summer in Paris, France, ostensibly championing private and open communication and taking up every single available media interview, hasn't said a word on Durov's arrest
r/worldnews r on reddit
Macron on Telegram CEO's arrest: French government was not involved
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads
The whole ‘Telegram is encrypted! The CEO was arrested for offering encryption!’ narrative is a useful signal for people who value loud opinions over basic and easy-to-check facts.
@timothybucksf Timothy Buck on threads
The vast majority of their 1:1 chats are unencrypted as well.
@counternotions@mastodon.social @counternotions@mastodon.social on mastodon
“Telegram knows its encryption is difficult to turn on, and they continue to promote their product as a secure messenger” — https://blog.cryptographyengineering.co m/ ...
@jawnsy@mastodon.social Jonathan Yu on mastodon
“Indeed, it no longer feels amusing to see the Telegram organization urge people away from default-encrypted messengers, while refusing to implement essential features that would widely encrypt their own users' messages. In fact, it's starting to feel a bit malicious.” …
@4Dgifts@mastodon.social @4Dgifts@mastodon.social on mastodon
So this weekend many people realized that an “heroic CEO” telling the Evil Governments to GTFO is not better than actually strong end to end encryption. In fact, it is not even equivalent. It is significantly worse. — Robust E2EE is immune to rubber hose key extraction. …
@JoshuaHolland@mastodon.social Joshua Holland on mastodon
I don't have a take on #Telegram CEO Pavel Durov's arrest because the prosecutor is issuing a statement detailing the charges tomorrow but I do find it a bit ironic that all the ‘save the children’ people are up in arms and Telegram's terms of service explicitly allow CSAM to spr…
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
Apropos Pavel Durov's arrest, I wrote a short post about whether Telegram is an “encrypted messaging app”. https://blog.cryptographyengineering.co m/ ...
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
The TL;DR here is that Telegram has an optional end-to-end encryption mode that you have to turn on manually. It only works for individual conversations, not for group chats. This is so relatively annoying to turn on (and invisible to most users) that I doubt many people do.
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
This on paper isn't that big a deal, but Telegram's decision to market itself as a secure messenger means that loads of people (and policymakers) probably assume that lots of its content is end-to-end encrypted. Why wouldn't you?
@zeynep Zeynep Tufekci on x
Whatever is going on with Telegram, it cannot be because it's encrypted because it is NOT in any meaningful sense. Telegram is as insecure and as unencrypted as it gets in the group & interpersonal messaging space — especially compared to Signal, Whatsapp, FB and Insta DMs, etc.
@will_duffield Will Duffield on x
A lot of reporting about Durov's arrest overstates how, or which parts of, Telegram are encrypted, making it seem more opaque than it is. I was just pushed this example by @axios. Matthew does a great job of explaining why such statements are both wrong and bad. [image]
@evacide Eva on x
Just in case my post wasn't enough, here is Matt Green making the same point in much more detail. Please enjoy.
@jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x
All of this. The number of people just now realizing that what they said Telegram was...not end-to-end encrypted is alarming. But it tracks warnings that have come for years from privacy & security advocates about misleading branding & communication from Telegram about encrypti…
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
None of this should be surprising to anyone who's looked at Telegram in the last few years. The only thing that surprised me was how annoying it was to turn on a “Secret Chat”. If the feature was hidden in a disused lavatory in a basement, it would have been more accessible.
@zeynep Zeynep Tufekci on x
Telegram is NOT encrypted in any meaningful sense—groups CANNOT be encrypted and person-to-person encryption is NOT default and is onerous to enact. Signal is meaningful encryption. Whatsapp is also encrypted end-to-end (check plaintext backup.) Don't call Telegram encrypted.
r/technology r on reddit
Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app?
r/Telegram r on reddit
Telegram's group chats are never e2e-encrypted
@kevincollier@mastodon.social Kevin Collier on mastodon
Telegram doesn't even have a statement about his arrest live on its own platform! Just X/Twitter. — [image]
@telegram @telegram on x
⚖️ Telegram abides by EU laws, including the Digital Services Act — its moderation is within industry standards and constantly improving. ✈️ Telegram's CEO Pavel Durov has nothing to hide and travels frequently in Europe. 😵‍💫 It is absurd to claim that a platform or its owner a…
@charliek65 Charlie on x
I did a lot of work on abuse originating from Telegram back with MSFT, and it's insane that they are claiming that they are not responsible for abuse on their platform. 1/
@troyhunt Troy Hunt on x
This one isn't going to fly: “It is absurd to claim that a platform or its owner are responsible for abuse of that platform.”
@bantg @bantg on x
weak response, tg devs don't understand they are at war
@danieljkelley Daniel Kelley on x
This is just not true. Telegrams TOS are bare bones by any standard and have no prohibition against hate, extremism, terrorism. [image]
@markjeffrey Mark Jeffrey on x
Telegram is not a crime. Telegram is a free speech platform. And free speech is THE foundational organ of democracy. The EU should stop attacking democracy. It was a bad look 80 years ago, and it's a bad look now.
@daveleebbg Dave Lee on threads
In a post last month, Pavel Durov said he had “over 100” biological children.
@brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads
We dont know details on the Durov arrest, but the “light content moderation” frame is taking hold. Thats not good. X has “light content moderation” & their product is crappy as a result. Filled w spam, porn, bots, etc. But Musks dirty secret is that X still addresses the wors…
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads
One of the most interesting things about Telegram is how many people in tech are under the impression that it uses E2E encryption when it does not. Telegram groups do not use E2EE. That appears to be why the French just arrested the CEO - because he actually could read the CSAM…
@edward.dowling Edward Dowling on threads
The arrest of the Telegram CEO isn't a risk to other social media platforms. I've worked directly on every part of the apparatus Meta has to detect and take action on harms, including CSAM. We invest a staggering amount and are the largest reporters of this content to law enfor…
@anneapplebaum2000 Anne Applebaum on threads
Maybe France just drew the line at terrorist recruitment
@sriramk Sriram Krishnan on threads
If the reports are accurate and the arrest of Pavel Durov is over lack of moderation on Telegram this is a pretty unprecedented escalation on how governments view tech leaders and their companies when it comes to online discourse. Ironically could push a lot more people to e2e e…
@karaswisher Kara Swisher on threads
This is a very big deal and potentially dangerous territory, unless you consider digital communication platforms, for example, as you would a bank that helps criminals launder money etc. I suspect there is more here, but a troubling move nonetheless. …
@reckless1280 Nilay Patel on threads
It's funny that Elon doesn't realize the Telegram CEO getting arrested is entirely consistent with his (weird, bad) free speech definition that governments should just pass speech laws - laws he complies with in countries around the world
@renee.diresta Renee DiResta on threads
The “light content moderation” frame is being deliberately pushed to generate outrage and reinforce a particular set of misleading claims about moderation that have taken hold on X more broadly. “Wait and see what the charges are” interferes with the immediacy required of profes…
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads
It seems unclear if the French arrested Durov for ‘just’ refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, or if they're accusing him of active complicity or worse in illegal activity, but either way this seems like a big deal... https://www.tf1info.fr/...
@benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads
If this is simply about his refusal to operate with law-enforcement, as appears to be the case from the French press, then it wouldn't have any implications for all for anyone else
@brian.fishman.5 Brian Fishman on threads
This is really interesting and potentially very important. I've no idea what's going on here, but Telegram is uniquely problematic in a variety of ways. https://www.bbc.com/...
@camwilsonreporter Cameron Wilson on threads
a big move to arrest a CEO of a platform but it really can't be understated how much damage is facilitated by Telegram. The most extreme hate communities, criminal enterprises, etc, have made their home their because Telegram is largely unmoderated and works better than most alt…
@mrkevinrothrock Kevin Rothrock on threads
Durov's arrest in Paris provokes sweeping claims about and comparisons between Russian and European Internet regulations and censorship. My two cents: be mindful about whom you're reading. It's much easier to be loud on this than informed.
@chris Chris Messina on threads
Telegram CEO arrested in France.
@snowden Edward Snowden on x
The arrest of @Durov is an assault on the basic human rights of speech and association. I am surprised and deeply saddened that Macron has descended to the level of taking hostages as a means for gaining access to private communications. It lowers not only France, but the world.
@elonmusk Elon Musk on x
#FreePavel [video]
@justinsuntron @justinsuntron on x
We should show the cryptocurrency industry's unity by organizing a #FreePavel DAO to help Telegram founder Pavel Durov legally gain freedom. I'll donate $1 million if it's created in a decentralized way with enough community support. @elonmusk @MarioNawfal
@tuckercarlson Tucker Carlson on x
Pavel Durov left Russia when the government tried to control his social media company, Telegram. But in the end, it wasn't Putin who arrested him for allowing the public to exercise free speech. It was a western country, a Biden administration ally and enthusiastic NATO member,
@chrispavlovski Chris Pavlovski on x
...France has threatened Rumble, and now they have crossed a red line by arresting Telegram's CEO, Pavel Durov, reportedly for not censoring speech. Rumble will not stand for this behavior and will use every legal means available to fight for freedom of expression...We are curre…
@vitalikbuterin @vitalikbuterin on x
@balajis I've criticized Telegram before for not being serious with encryption. But (given the info available so far: the charge seems to be just being “unmoderated” and not giving up people's data), this looks very bad and worrying for the future of software and comms freedom in…
@paoloardoino Paolo Ardoino on x
The arrest of Pavel Durov for enabling free speech communications through Telegram is very concerning. If we, as a society, lose the battle to defend freedom of speech and communication, nothing else won't matter, dark ages will be our future.
@elonmusk Elon Musk on x
POV: It's 2030 in Europe and you're being executed for liking a meme
@ton_blockchain Ton on x
...As a community committed to freedom of speech and decentralization, we stand firmly by Pavel during this challenging time. Pavel has been a dedicated advocate for these values, and we believe his efforts to promote an open and decentralized internet will continue to inspire m…
@grapheneos @grapheneos on x
Telegram has full access to all of the content of group chats and regular one-to-one chats due to lack of end-to-end encryption. Their opt-in secret chats use homegrown end-to-end encryption with weaknesses. Deleting the content from the app likely won't remove all copies of it.
@fbajak Frank Bajak on x
Story by @AP on the arrest of Telegram CEO Pavel Durov by French authorities as he landed in Paris. Despite what @Snowden @elonmusk and @TuckerCarlson may say, there is no indication this has ANYTHING to do with content moderation. https://apnews.com/...
@lorenzofb Lorenzo Franceschi-Bicchierai on x
I am * shocked * that people on Twitter started wildly speculating about Durov's arrest, rather than wait to hear what he is actually being charged for.
@hsu_steve Steve Hsu on x
Durov on US pressure to install backdoors in Telegram. Now the French have him in custody.
@atamas Alexander Tamas on x
Pavel Durov's arrest in France is a chilling blow to free speech and a betrayal of Western values. I have known Pavel Durov for almost two decades. He is the most principled person I have ever met. He stood up to Putin, Xi Jinping, Khomeini and others in defense of liberty and
@jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x
Misunderstandings about #Telegram & encryption are already shaping the conversation about Pavel Durov's detention. So, here's a primer. Telegram is often seen as an “encrypted messenger” but for many users it functions a lot more like an unencrypted social network. 1/
@gergelyorosz Gergely Orosz on x
A key question: how did Russian-born Pavel Durov become a French citizen? He has no French parents and did not live in France for 5 years (a requirement for naturalization when no French parents). He... applied (as a joke??) and got the citizenship. Whoa: https://www.lemonde.fr/.…
@jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x
6/ Recap: much still unknown about what France wants from Pavel Durov's unprecedented detention. In the meantime, it is key to understand which content on #Telegram...can be accessed by Telegram... and which has been protected, in theory, even from Telegram, with e2ee. Because …
@photomatt Matt Mullenweg on x
I've been a massive fan of Telegram since it started, and I'm among its earliest users. I know its technical security boundaries. I'm also profoundly impressed with how they've iterated and scaled the product quality, interface, and ecosystem. It is the best-executing tech tea…
@evacide Eva on x
It's not clear what is happening to Pages Durov right now or why, but I think it's important to distinguish between governments pressuring Telegram to hand over contents of communications and governments pressuring Telegram to do content moderation.
@mdudas Mike Dudas on x
europe was becoming increasingly popular as the tourist continent, but now they arrest the tourists they don't like, so now we have to wait until the uae can rebuild europe in the desert so we can enjoy tourism again
@jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x
4/ Because of the large slice of activity on #Telegram that is not & has never been end-to-end encrypted, Pavel's detention is clearly alarming many Telegram users left wondering about the privacy of what they have said in the past & who might be able to access it.
@megatron_ron @megatron_ron on x
In an interview with Tucker Carlson, Durov said that the last time he was in the United States, he brought an engineer from Telegram with him, who the secret services tried to hire behind Durov's back. 7/ [video]
@evacide Eva on x
It's not clear what is happening to Pavel Durov right now or why, but I think it's important to distinguish between governments pressuring Telegram to hand over contents of communications and governments pressuring Telegram to do content moderation.
@nic__carter Nic Carter on x
There's something deeply offensive about European leaders who preside over a decaying continent which produces nothing aside from “culture” and trinkets of their lost empire appointing themselves technocrats and imposing their rules on global tech companies built elsewhere. I
@julienhoez Julien Hoez on x
Russia is now trying to pressure Marine Le Pen, Jordan Bardella, and the Rassemblement National party to fight for the freedom of #PavelDurov. Now, ask yourselves why they ask them specifically and directly. [image]
@nastyastognei Anastasia Stognei on x
Durov's arrest has been a gift for Russian propaganda which used it to attack the “hypocrisy of western values and freedom of speech” “He thought his biggest problems were in Russia and left. He miscalculated,” said Russian hawkish ex-president Medvedev https://www.ft.com/... [im…
@christogrozev Christo Grozev on x
I wonder what caught up with him first: the undisturbed sale of hard drugs vIa telegram, or the undisturbed recruitment of freelancers for GRU's terrorist attacks across Europe.
@yarotrof Yaroslav Trofimov on x
Panic among Russian military analysts and bloggers: Telegram seems to be the critical means of communication within the Russian armed forces. [image]
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
I have a lot of issues with Telegram and I wouldn't be shocked if there's some bad stuff going on there. But this is an awful move by France and is not going to have the effect they want.
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
Also dear media: please stop calling Telegram an “encrypted messaging app.” If it was actually an encrypted messaging app, many things would be different.
@elonmusk Elon Musk on x
Liberté Liberté! Liberté?
@daancrypto @daancrypto on x
$TON Price fell -20% and Open Interest increased by +55% after the news hit that the Durov, the Founder and CEO of Telegram & TON got detained in France. Most of these are undoubtedly shorts/hedges. First off, always be careful catching a falling knife. I do think some of these […
@jsrailton John Scott-Railton on x
BREAKING: #Telegram CEO Pavel Durov arrested by French authorities. Early official comments to French media suggest this follows from France's displeasure with Telegram's moderation & compliance with official requests(?). If so, I'm pretty sure this is an unprecedented action [im…
@imposecost Andrew Thompson on x
I'm always interested in these kinds of cases. Can you imagine Mark Zuckerberg getting arrested due to content posted on Facebook?
@bostonjoan @bostonjoan on x
This arrest could change everything for communications in Europe and beyond. Telegram is run by a very small team and that's a high risk if authorities arrest the CEO and investigate the platform for enabling criminal activity.
@kevincollier Kevin Collier on x
Impossible to deny that Telegram's near-total lack of moderation has allowed criminality to thrive on the platform, but this is still astounding and unprecedented.
@paulg Paul Graham on x
It's hard to imagine a country both arresting the founder of Telegram and being a major startup hub.
@jason @jason on x
“Lack of moderation” feels like something is getting lost in translation here. In France it's well established that encrypted apps are allowed, but you have to keep metadata and decrypt in the case of terrorism/national security correct? Pavel must have known this — wonder
@micsolana Mike Solana on x
telegram founder arrested in france for “lack of moderation.” wild, because i could have sworn yann lecun said the country had “free speech.” globalist tyranny continues to escalate. europe is no longer a safe continent for anyone working on anything meaningful. [image]
@moxie Moxie Marlinspike on x
@micsolana The challenge with this story is that Durov is a fraud and a liar. It's totally possible for that to be true *and* for Europe to be the forefront of global tyranny, but given the former it might be worth waiting a sec to read the complaint
@yashar Yashar Ali on x
NEWS CNN has confirmed that French authorities have detained Pavel Durov, the French-Russian billionaire who founded the messaging app Telegram, at an airport outside Paris. Durov, 39, was wanted under a French arrest warrant due to the lack of moderation on Telegram which [image…
@0xmert_ Mert on x
the french arrested the ceo of telegram for not leaking user chats weeks after the british started arresting people for saying potentially mean things on the internet we're up against the nastiest of bureaucrats who have zero respect for individuals crypto must win [image]
@bantg @bantg on x
first they came for telegram, and i did not speak out— because i used signal. then they came for signal, and i did not speak out— because i used email. then they came for https, and i did not speak out— because i thought http was enough. then they came for dns, and i did not
@clownworld_ @clownworld_ on x
BREAKING: Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram, arrested in France and facing 20 years in jail for refusing to censor his platform. The charges include terrorism, money laundering, and more—looks like they're targeting anyone who defends free speech. [image]
@woonomic Willy Woo on x
George Orwell was 40 years early in his prediction, we needed the advent of widespread social media before his 1984 vision could be executed. The moment it became technically possible, the power hungry went for it.
@adamscochran Adam Cochran on x
This will ultimately come down to the difference between: “It was happening on his platform and he didn't do enough to prevent it” Vs “It was happening on his platform he knew about explicit cases and turned a blind eye or even fostered it” Two very different legal nuances.
@prestonjbyrne Preston Byrne on x
If you run a social media company, don't leave the United States, don't hire outside the United States, don't rely on anything outside the United States. The rest of the world is willing to jail you in order to censor your users.
@adamscochran Adam Cochran on x
Any actual filing on the Telegram cofounder arrest? So far I've only seen wild speculation as to the reason, but, nothing concrete. If this is liability for bad KYC/AML on their wallet app it likely gets settled. If this is something more direct, then it'd actually be bad (for
@intangiblecoins Alex Thorn on x
my guess is they will allege noncompliance by telegram w/ EU's digital services act (DSA), a very bad law that holds platforms liable for illegal user content that liability contrasts w/ Section 230 in USA, which exempts platforms from liability for user content.. long live 🇺🇸
@bantg @bantg on x
telegram founder arrested in france and held responsible for other people using his messenger doing crimes. we have another tornado cash case on our hands. safe harbor laws don't apply anymore? eu holding a ceo as hostage instead of going for actual criminals.
@defiignas Ignas on x
@bantg Crazy he is charged with “terrorism, drugs, complicity, fraud, money laundering, concealment, paedophile content...” [image]
@jtlonsdale Joe Lonsdale on x
This is terrible and reflects a huge fork in the road; it's all part of the same battle. The growing totalitarianism in the UK and EU is in line with the US left's earlier disinfo NGOs, and Walz's comments on banning misinfo. If they appoint more judges here, we could be next.
@balajis Balaji on x
Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested in France. His “crime” appears to be enabling free speech online. https://www.thesun.co.uk/... [image]
@balajis Balaji on x
This is another battle in the struggle between Network and State. Can failing states stop the decentralized network? Hopefully not. But they will keep escalating with this type of show trial.
@kirillzzy Kirill Avery on x
as much as i usually don't agree with tucker, he's right here pavel is one of the greatest entrepreneurs alive, so sad this is happening
@matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
Pavel Durov, CEO of Telegram, has reportedly been arrested in France. The charges are allegedly due to the lack of moderators on the platform allowing criminal activity to take place there. https://www.reuters.com/...
@mualphaxi Max Meyer on x
The French government arrested Pavel Durov for not having “moderators” in his ENCRYPTED MESSAGING APP Private communication is now a crime in Europe, apparently. [image]
@mike_salter Michael Salter on x
Our research found that Australian child sex offenders are 10x more likely to use Telegram. Now the CEO has been detained in France, apparently under investigation for his app's facilitation of criminal offences, including child sexual abuse. You do love to see it.
@privacymatters @privacymatters on x
Threats to arrest staff are not new. It happened during the ‘Arab Spring’ when the Egyptian government allegedly threatened to arrest Vodafone employees if the company did not do as asked of it. Search it.
@etbrooking Emerson T. Brooking on x
Nothing like this has happened before. And while we will soon learn more, it sounds like the contours of this complaint could be applied to most American tech CEO's. A severe challenge for DSA enforcement and dangerous precedent for digital rights.
@jamesrbuk James Ball on x
A major European country has reportedly arrested the CEO of a major online communications platform. Needless to say, this is big and has potentially huge ramifications. But it's not Starmer vs Musk...
@carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x
Billionaire Pavel Durov, the founder and CEO of Telegram, has been arrested in France. French authorities believe that Telegram's lack of moderation, not collaborating with law enforcement, use of anonymity and crypto make it an accomplice in drug trafficking, CSAM and fraud. [im…
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French President Emmanuel Macron says the government was not involved in the arrest of Telegram CEO Pavel Durov and “this is in no way a political decision”

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