Discussion

• @benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads

  There is not much you can say about Apple's App Store rules that we didn't say in 2011.  Apple thinks it should get paid by developers and it thinks that third-party apps need to be managed actively for privacy security and performance.  The first is a matter of opinion, but on t…

• @timothybucksf Timothy Buck on threads

  I'm with you.  I wish they didn't use the App Store for both privacy/safety/security/simplicity reasons and to actively prevent competition they don't want (streaming games until this week), benefit their own apps over competitors (Spotify, Kindle, etc), and charge fees on things…

• @Gargron@mastodon.social Eugen Rochko on mastodon

  If #Apple continues on this path I'm going to have to switch back to Android.  The idea that they deserve a fee from developers for people simply running programs on their operating system is unhinged.  The App Store fee is justified because it's a distribution channel.  But what…

• @stroughtonsmith … Steve Troughton-Smith on mastodon

  Free apps are going to be massively, disproportionately affected by Apple's Core Technology Fee, which is why I don't think it will stand as-is.  —  If you have just 2M users on a completely free app, you're looking at $45,290 in monthly fees to Apple, or half a million dollars a…

• @bigzaphod@mastodon.social Sean Heber on mastodon

  It is absolutely bonkers that Apple is rolling out all of these major App Store changes but restricting them to Europe.  —  They're treating the calls for more openness the same way they treat demands for censorship in China.  These are not the same thing.

• @stroughtonsmith … Steve Troughton-Smith on mastodon

  Whatever about the business side, the technical aspects of how Apple is enabling alternative app stores on iOS are quite amazing.  Beyond MarketplaceKit, third party app stores link into App Store Connect, and developers still register their apps on ASC, and notarize them there. …

• @lapcatsoftware@mastodon.social Jeff Johnson on mastodon

  A lot of techies go on and on about “consumer choice”, but ordinary people actually love it that Walmart is the only store in town.  They find other stores to be confusing and scary.

• @stroughtonsmith … Steve Troughton-Smith on mastodon

  I think most of what Apple is proposing is acceptable, even good.  I think the specifics on the Core Technology Fee need a little tweaking (i.e. free apps in or out of App Store shouldn't be bankrupted by 1M+1 users), and I hope the EU negotiates on that point. …

• @lapcatsoftware@mastodon.social Jeff Johnson on mastodon

  I actually wish that Apple had charged a per-install fee from the beginning of the App Store.  —  That would have slowed the race to the bottom and made the deal fairer for developers of paid apps.

• @iKyle@mastodon.social Kyle Howells on mastodon

  Normally companies spin things as “we just came up with this new idea all on our own coincidentally when we were forced to” (USB-C iPhone).  —  This is not that.  They read like the person who wrote them hates every word they are being forced to write.

• @ecschwarz@mastodon.social @ecschwarz@mastodon.social on mastodon

  It's really wild to me that the current Apple news cycle has folks talking fondly over the Mac turning 40 and instead of getting back to those roots, Apple doubled down on malicious compliance in the EU.  Also, podcasts now get transcripts, which is a great move for accessibility…

• @iKyle@mastodon.social Kyle Howells on mastodon

  I find it so weird people suddenly act like macOS and Windows just don't exist when talking about iOS app distribution.  —  All these ridiculous arguments saying Apple deserves to tax developers whatever they want and the ecosystem can't possibly exist without the AppStore. …

• @iKyle@mastodon.social Kyle Howells on mastodon

  Given the EU needs to actually approve these I'm really hoping for actual independent distribution side loading.  —  Not just the choice of multiple gate keepers.  —  But it feels like the chance of actual side loading might be lost for now.

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  Apple's plan to thwart Europe's new Digital Markets Act law is a devious new instance of Malicious Compliance.  They are forcing developers to choose between App Store exclusivity and the store terms, which will be illegal under DMA, or accept a new also-illegal anticompetitive s…

• @eldsjal Daniel Ek on x

  After sitting with our legal team to parse through the fine print of Apple's DMA announcement (that took a while), which is, at best vague and misleading, I wanted to share my thoughts.  While Apple has behaved badly for years, what they did yesterday represents a new low, even f…

• @florian4gamers Florian Mueller on x

  The one thing that the EU may *really* get as a result of Apple's new DMA rules is native iPhone porn apps, requiring at least one iPhone porn app store. I'm not kidding you! This is real, though obviously not the victory for the EU and its citizens that @Andreas_Schwab and his..…

• @artemr Artem Russakovskii on x

  Apple's alternative app store proposal is downright insulting, infuriating, audacious, impudent, outrageous. EU should slap them back so hard for this nonsense. Tim Cook needs a proper spanking.

• @eric_seufert Eric Seufert on x

  Apple's compliance with the DMA is performative: I view its new, alternative business terms as another instance of Apple offering developers a “heads I win, tails you lose” proposition. Apple yesterday published its long-awaited guidance around its compliance with the Digital... …

• @stevemoser Steve Moser on x

  Interesting but not surprising that Spotify is sticking with the status quo given the large fees they would incur for the free downloads of their app.

• @keleftheriou Kosta Eleftheriou on x

  No one likes less choice. People don't care where they get an app from. They care that it won't break their device or do other nasty stuff. And Apple's App Store isn't necessary for either of those.

• @snazzylabs @snazzylabs on x

  No matter which side you fall on concerning the EU/Apple legislation debacle, there's no way in which Apple comes out of this without pie on their face.

• @florian4gamers Florian Mueller on x

  Monetization expert @eric_seufert views “these new EU App Store guidelines as a Hobson's choice that will perpetuate the status quo” with the narrow exception of maybe an app that generates high annual per-user revenues on low download volumes. 🧵1/3 https://mobiledevmemo.com/...

• @mitsuhiko Armin Ronacher on x

  Apple really is making a mockery of the DMA. Quite frankly the chutzpah of these large tech companies is starting to annoy me. Imagine any other industry behaving like this. They all believe they are above the law.

• @florian4gamers Florian Mueller on x

  Some commentators believe Apple's EU-bashing over the DMA and security/privacy is a PR strategy with a view to app developers and users. App developers are Apple's LOWEST priority as Tim Cook's testimony in Epic v. Apple showed. Users are a higher priority but not here: 🧵1/3

• @dhh @dhh on x

  “Relationships that are destructive, don't help anybody, in this industry today”, Steve Jobs said, as he announced the truce with Microsoft in 1997. They could use some of that spirit today. Conciliatory, graceful, forward-looking. Bury the spite. https://www.youtube.com/...

• @games_fray @games_fray on x

  No sideloading, no viable payment alternatives, no truly competitive app stores: #Apple's new EU rules render #DigitalMarketsAct pointless This article proves that practically 100% of all other reports are wrong: Apple DOESN'T allow sideloading of apps. https://gamesfray.com/... …

• @jamescz19 James Czerniawski on x

  Interesting coverage of DMA compliance for Apple by Eric here. Definitely something to monitor. The DMA is certainly something that I'm no fan of. Attempting to pry open the walled garden, should have left a warning sign for all the thorns in there lol.

• @ideafaktory Steve Faktor on x

  Apple's self-serving response to EU regulations. Regulators are consistently outsmarted by corporations, or cause them to pull back services, hurting consumers. It also underscores Europe's lack of tech innovation & total reliance on foreign companies. https://twitter.com/...

• @frontczak Tomasz Frontczak on x

  What's the chance that Apple getting in line with the EU's Digital Markets Act is gonna make a difference for how mobile app businesses run things?  See the GIF for a quick answer... but if you want the full scoop, dive into Eric's top-notch post.  [Gif: Zero]

• @film_girl Christina Warren on x

  The girls are fighting!!!!

• @eldsjal Daniel Ek on x

  For almost five years - 1,782 days - we have been asking the European Commission to take action against Apple. You can imagine my excitement when the DMA was created and passed into law because it was such a progressive step against Apple's App Store monopoly.

• @jeiting Jacob Eiting on x

  If Apple's stranglehold on app distribution is so terrible for everyone, what is preventing a new entrant from building a new phone with an open store and dominating the market?

• @florian4gamers Florian Mueller on x

  If xCloud comes to iOS as a native app soon, Xbox fans actually have to thank the @CMAgovUK. That may seem counterintuitive, but it's true. I believe the CMA deserves 60% of the related credit versus the EU DMA's 40%. Divided by the number of inhabitants even better for the CMA.

• @nikitabier Nikita Bier on x

  With Apple now allowing “alternative app stores,” I will be launching: The App Store - After Dark We will approve exactly the kind of apps that you're thinking. Wires to invest are due by midnight.

• @eldsjal Daniel Ek on x

  Their reaction to the DMA is a masterclass in distortion.  They present a ‘simple’ choice: Stick with their current terms or switch to a convoluted new model that looks attractive on the surface but has potentially even higher fees.  Reality check: Apple's alternative is no alter…

• @ccatalini Christian Catalini on x

  Reminded me of @cdixon's graphs about why Web3 matters: https://x.com/... [image]

• @geneburrus Gene Burrus on x

  @dhh Ironically, it was Apple's unfettered ability to put iTunes on Windows without commissions or interference by Microsoft that led to Apple's survival and success. First with iPod, then with iPhone. Thanks to DOJ and EU actions.

• @games_fray @games_fray on x

  #Apple's #FRAND-centric litigation strategy against the EU's DMA protects its monopoly rents for years After further analysis, it's clear there won't be effective competition without a court setting fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory (FRAND) rates. https://gamesfray.com/...

• @lewis_crofts Lewis Crofts on x

  .⁦@ProtonMail⁩ (an encrypted email service & app) is decidedly NOT HAPPY with ⁦@Apple⁩ changes to comply with #DMA [image]

• @ow Owen Williams on x

  it's apparently incomprehensible to people on this site that this can be true for most people, while ALSO being true that it's good thing that there is a path to installing software outside of a closed app store for other people

• @florian4gamers Florian Mueller on x

  I recommend this write-up by @GeradinLaw, who wonders whether Apple is taking the European Commission for fools with its new app rules: https://theplatformlaw.blog/ ... I agree with the criticism but Apple can argue it complies with the letter of (even if not the intent behind) t…

• @timsweeneyepic Tim Sweeney on x

  Great coverage of Apple's fake compliance with Europe's DMA law. https://theplatformlaw.blog/ ...

• @arturo_p_a Arturo Portilla on x

  “When Apple takes the European Commission for fools: An initial overview of Apple's new terms and conditions for iOS app distribution in the EU” Great analysis by Damien Geradin on Apple's response to EU's requirements under the Digital Markets Act. https://theplatformlaw.blog/ .…

• @dhh @dhh on x

  This is the kind of pull-up-the-ladder move that Apple is now embracing across the board. Policies that would have stunted their own ascent. If we'd had an Apple-of-today like gorilla at that time, the Apple-of-back-then would never have succeeded.

• @eric_seufert Eric Seufert on x

  My take on Apple's recently-announced App Store “business terms” for the EU, ahead of its necessary compliance with the DMA: the per-install fee dramatically diminishes the viability of side-loading and third-party stores. (1/X) https://www.apple.com/... [image]

• @dhh @dhh on x

  “At first glance, it could seem like Apple actually attempted some semblance of good faith compliance with the DMA. But once you start peeling the onion, you realize it's stuffed with poison pills so toxic you can scarcely believe Apple's chutzpah.” https://world.hey.com/...

• r/hardware r on reddit

  [The Platform Law Blog] When Apple takes the European Commission for fools: An initial overview of Apple's new terms and conditions for iOS app distribution in the EU

• @dreamwieber Gregory Wieber on threads

  Apple's locked-down App Store has kept the iPhone one of the safest and easiest to use devices ever made

• @gruber John Gruber on threads

  This is the short version: 5,000 words.  A whole column's-worth of footnotes alone (873 words).  Good thing I have a nice keyboard. https://daringfireball.net/...

• @georgescriban @georgescriban on threads

  A lot of people on this (and other) web sites are: * working at companies that either compete with Apple or *think* they compete with Apple * super-fluent in technology and believe that everything that computes should a general purpose computer They're not normal people.

• @gedeonm@mastodon.social Ged Maheux on mastodon

  Read this entire piece, wow, this had to be a pain to write, John.  I don't understand a lot of how this will all play out but the final paragraph is indeed delicious irony.  —  Craig submitted iPulse for iOS to the App Store yesterday and we honestly have NO IDEA if it will pass…

• @maxrovensky Max Rovensky on x

  @szurkegandalf @sdw DMA is not pro-consumer It's anti big business Those tend to coincide sometimes, which makes it an easy sell for the general public, but do actually read the DMA, it's quite interesting

• @sdw Sebastiaan de With on x

  @derloos @MaxRovensky I love that I can't tell if you are talking about the EU or Apple in this case

• @gruber John Gruber on x

  Tried my best to keep this short and it still ran 5,000 words. Whole column-worth of footnotes alone.

• r/apple r on reddit

  John Gruber: Apple's Plans for the DMA in the European Union

• @jimmylittle Jimmy Little on threads

  Apple should tell Spotify that if they agree to pay artists at the same rate as Apple Music, they'll waive the fees.  Would Spotify rather double their artist payouts, or pay Apple?  “We should be the only ones fleecing our content creators” is not a strong argument, Mr. Ek. …

• @jimmylittle Jimmy Little on threads

  I think Benedict Evans generally has great insight, but he kinda missed this one.  Spotify is no different than any other company.  Spotify: 70% to creators (well, the creator's record labels) Google Play: 70% to creators App Store: 70% to creators Game consoles: 70% to creators …

• @iainharper Iain Harper on threads

  Spotify can keep the Status Quo and continue to pay Apple nothing.  What they want is to have their cake and eat it - to have their app within the iOS ecosystem refer a ton of subscription customers to them but pay nothing for those direct referrals.  That's not how business work…

• @chancehmiller Chance Miller on threads

  In a statement to me, Apple fires back at Spotify's ciritcisim of this weeks App Store news: “We're happy to support the success of all developers - including Spotify...The changes we're sharing in the European Union give developers choice...Every developer can choose to stay on …

• @daveleebbg Dave Lee on threads

  Getting ugly real quick

• @documentingmeta @documentingmeta on threads

  sure Apple this wouldn't be a problem at all if only you didn't have a competing product of your own called Apple Music

• @frankreiff@mastodon.social Frank Reiff on mastodon

  This is as close to a “we are not amused” as the EU commission ever comes.  —  Google was fined 2.42B euros; Meta 1.2B..  —  As an EU citizen I find it shocking that US companies simply believe themselves to be above the law.. and even more shocking that so many otherwise sane Am…

• @kwekuoa Kweku Opoku-Agyemang, Ph.D on x

  It's definitely a strong approach, if not rather extreme. I'm not sure how sustainable it is, though. It's basically Epic's argument in broad daylight—but for developers—and on steroids. Hopefully cool heads will prevail.

• @eldsjal Daniel Ek on x

  But of course, I was skeptical of Apple's intentions to comply after years of watching them get away with such extreme abuse with all the ways they skirt regulations around the world. Who wouldn't be? But the law is the law, right? Not if you are Apple...

• @mdudas Mike Dudas on x

  Apple are bad people. Their uncle created the recipe. They milk it, refuse to share and hold the best people hostage with"non-competes." It's like the Mafia serving the best pizza and Italian food in Little Italy. No one else can compete because they need to pay 30% to play...

• @simmenfl Florian Simmendinger on x

  @eldsjal You don't have a right to do business on Apple's platform on your terms. You didn't build it. I also don't get to decide under which conditions I can publish my music on Spotify.

• @joecarlsonshow Joseph Carlson on x

  @eldsjal Apple's 15% cut is too much, but you take a 50% cut from advertiser revenue on Spotify. [image]

• @eldsjal Daniel Ek on x

  Sadly this is a classic move of an old, dominant company that believes the rules don't apply to them. Instead of adapting and innovating, they're twisting the situation, making it seem like the regulators are at fault. Or even worse, pretending this has to do with security when..…

• @kwekuoa Kweku Opoku-Agyemang, Ph.D on x

  I'm actually not surprised. Epic was speaking to the switching costs argument: that Apple's walled garden locks users into iOS and may harm competition by not allowing consumers very easy access to alternative platforms if they're dissatisfied by high prices or locked out.

• @elchefe @elchefe on x

  Bro you take half of the revenue from ads, pay your artists half as much as Apple and laid off a bunch of people for no reason, so you can, with every ounce of disrespect owed to a billionaire whining about unfair treatment, fuck all the way off into space.

• @patrickmoorhead Patrick Moorhead on x

  As discussed in the @TheSixFiveMedia Weekly podcast, @Apple is putting up smaller walls to circumvent the EC's DMA. Usually Apple is compliant, but it seems like the company is going to fight this tooth and nail. That 30% app and service payment for storing & security scanning...

• @eldsjal Daniel Ek on x

  So where does that leave us? Under the new terms, we cannot afford these fees if we want to be a profitable company, so our only option is to stick with the status quo. The very thing we've been fighting against for five years.

• @carnage4life Dare Obasanjo on x

  “A completely new 0.50 cent Euro fee per download, every year, in perpetuity, to Apple for just allowing developers to exist on iOS - This is extortion, plain and simple.” - Spotify press release https://newsroom.spotify.com/ ...

• @lapcatsoftware@mastodon.social Jeff Johnson on mastodon

  The irony of Apple's “five app stores” approach is that it may cause even *fewer* developers to support iPad, and consequently, macOS and visionOS.

• @patrickmoorhead Patrick Moorhead on x

  Apple's BoD hopefully can provide adult supervision on this topic. While I don't think this will unravel Apple as its power lies mostly users and developers *have* to create for iOS, this HAS to have developers rethinking their strategies for platforms and promotion.

• r/apple r on reddit

  Apple's reluctant, punitive compliance with regulators will burn its political and developer goodwill

• @terhechte@mastodon.social @terhechte@mastodon.social on mastodon

  Fascinating, keeping the iPad a Baby Computer is so important to Apple that they even carved out a special rule such that the EU DMA doesn't apply to the iPad and none of the potential (few as there will probably be) “unfiltered” software will be available for it. …

• @baekdal Thomas Baekdal on x

  You got to be f... kidding me. Someone needs to give Apple a serious whupping. [image]

• @wavesblog Simonetta Vezzoso on x

  E.g., „The ability to set default NFC and wallet apps will only be available on the iPhone"

• @auchenberg Kenneth Auchenberg on x

  An overlooked detail: EU has not deemed iPads and iPadOS a “gatekeeper platform” under the Digital Markets Act. This means that the upcoming iOS changes won't apply to iPads. At least for now. https://9to5mac.com/...

• @ashleygullen Ashley Gullen on x

  Now it turns out even the limited, obviously bad faith compliance Apple have come up with, won't even apply to iPad, because apparently that's a whole different operating system. https://9to5mac.com/...