Discussion

• Vox Shirin Ghaffary on x

  It's getting harder for people to believe that Facebook is a net good for society

• @jeffhorwitz Jeff Horwitz on x

  IG head @mosseri: “Cars have positive or negative outcomes... We know that more people die than would otherwise because of car accidents. But by and large, cars create way more value in the world than they destroyed. And I think social media is similar.” https://www.shorturl.at/o…

• @pkafka Peter Kafka on x

  “Cars create way more value in the world than they destroyed. And I think social media is similar” Instagram boss @mosseri on WSJ piece re: IG research that suggests the app can be harmful to its teenage users. https://podcasts.apple.com/...

• @dseetharaman Deepa Seetharaman on x

  ***putting my former autos reporter hat on*** — Cars are ~heavily~ regulated, down to the color of the blinker, & regularly tested for safety problems. That industry also needed to be -shoved- into mandating seat belts & other safety features despite knowing they'd save lives. ht…

• @dkthomp Derek Thompson on x

  Instagram isn't a car. It's booze—a delightful & depressing social lubricant blending short-term euphoria w/ long-term regret that offers to young consumers a messy cocktail of dopamine, disorientation, and dependency. Social media is attention alcohol. https://www.theatlantic.co…

• @swodinsky Shoshana Wodinsky on x

  everyone's rightfully dunking on mosseri here but tbh i'm more curious abt how this guy defines “value” than his hella awkward car analogies https://www.cnbc.com/...

• @stevekovach Steve Kovach on x

  We also regulate cars. Licenses from state governments. Speed limits. Seat belts. Etc. https://twitter.com/...

• @juliacarriew Julia Carrie Wong on x

  ah yes, cars, those innovations that never kill anyone, have no meaningful regulation, are in no way related to the greatest crisis facing our planet, and are freely accessible to children under 16 https://twitter.com/...

• @ewarren Elizabeth Warren on x

  Facebook gobbled up Instagram because they were too chicken to compete against them fair & square for younger users. When there's one big game in town, there's a whole lot less pressure to offer the best service—or do the least damage. #BreakUpBigTech https://www.wsj.com/...

• @justinhendrix Justin Hendrix on x

  Can we talk about the fact that A) Cars are highly regulated, licensed, inspected and policed B) Are known to produce harmful pollution that also remains a substantial concern and may contribute to the entire planet being uninhabitable https://twitter.com/...

• @mosseri @mosseri on x

  The number of reporters dunking on this, admittedly less than perfect, analogy on Twitter who clearly didn't listen to the pod, where @pkafka makes sure we cover the obvious next question about regulation, is remarkable. https://twitter.com/...

• @thecultureofme No Context Jeff on x

  so you agree? that social networks should be heavily regulated to reduce the harm to its users through oversight, safety measures, and training of anyone in the citizenry who'd like to use one? https://twitter.com/...

• @parkan Arkadiy Kukarkin on x

  this is why I am so forceful in convincing younger folks reaching out to me about not working at facebook even for a short time: it (by design) destroys your ability for systemic thinking, to understand the harms done by supposedly benign elements at scale and in context https://…

• @mosseri @mosseri on x

  I had a chance to tap to the thoughtful @pkafka about this week's WSJ article, regulation, our biggest mistakes, creators, and the MET gala this week. Somewhat of a conversation between an optimist and a pessimist, check it out: https://podcasts.apple.com/...

• @smdiehl Stephen Diehl on x

  What the WSJ is uncovering from the Facebook leaks is absolutely terrifying. This is a company defined by complete and utter recklessness with no regard for consequences of their actions. https://www.wsj.com/...

• @zachacole Zach Cole on x

  Fwiw, cars kill roughly 1.3 million people per year (roughly entire population of Maine) and contribute significantly to climate change, obesity, and housing inequality. And the head of IG thinks social media is similar. https://twitter.com/...

• @rory_carroll Rory Carroll on x

  We'd be so much better off if everybody knew that nobody in tech has better than a middle school understanding of the world https://www.cnbc.com/...

• @fboversight @fboversight on x

  @ceciliakang ... Sounds like a good idea!

• @ceciliakang Cecilia Kang on x

  @mosseri @pkafka Hi. Dunker here. How about an AMA to answer questions in the audience?

• @accountabletech @accountabletech on x

  This whole quote is like a slow motion car crash. https://twitter.com/...

• @arainert @arainert on x

  I get the majority of Facebook users (*all* their apps) aren't reading news every day & couldn't care less about the neverending scandal drumbeat. However, I struggle to understand how ppl who DO read & understand their behavior continue using the products https://www.wsj.com/...

• @dangillmor Dan Gillmor on x

  Because driving a car is equivalent to speech... https://twitter.com/...

• @mathewi Mathew Ingram on x

  Agreed. Cars as a whole do produce value, but when one manufacturer ignores evidence that their model routinely explodes and kills everyone inside, the government usually steps in https://twitter.com/...

• @blkahn Brian Kahn on x

  Transportation is responsible for a quarter of global carbon emissions that are making the planet overheat (to say nothing of deaths tied to air pollution and traffic accidents)... https://twitter.com/...

• @naparstek Aaron Naparstek on x

  If you're defending your company's product by arguing that it is merely as destructive as the automobile, then I'm betting your company is in serious trouble. https://twitter.com/...

• @mollywood Molly Wood on x

  The metaphor in question, btw. https://twitter.com/...

• @alex_danco Alex Danco on x

  For everyone dunking on this saying “OMFG cars are regulated!!!”, ask yourself how Facebook feels about the prospect of social media being regulated https://twitter.com/...

• @ggreeneva Greg Greene on x

  We have copious laws that determine where and how people can use motor vehicles — and for how long certain people who drive especially large vehicles can do so. If a top corporate official Facebook means to imply he wants the same regime for his business, sign me up. https://twit…

• @tante @tante on x

  Holy fuck is this painful to read. Especially coming from the head of the “Unhappiness Machine” Instagram https://twitter.com/...

• @nateparrott Nate Parrott on x

  very strong argument in favor of getting rid of social media https://twitter.com/...

• @eladratson Elad Ratson on x

  For Adam @Mosseri, Facebook's Instagram Chief, Social media is like cars. Indispensable technologies which may harm when misused. I couldn't agree more. This is precisely why social media companies should be as regulated as the car industry! https://twitter.com/...

• @mosseri @mosseri on x

  @MikeIsaac We certainly have bias, but yes we believe connecting people does more good than bad. We have shared data that suggests as much, but I'm not sure anyone, within the company or externally, has tried to - or can - fully measure all the benefits and costs.

• @mosseri @mosseri on x

  @goldman That was @pkafka next question, which we talked about on the pod. The car analogy is quite stretched; it was just one point in an hour long conversation.

• @morroweric Eric Morrow on x

  I don't think you can look at the effects of climate change and say cars are creating more value than not unchallenged https://twitter.com/...

• @nickstatt Nick Statt on x

  “Like... imagine if cars didn't exist?” Right. Society would be better, and your cities would look more like those in Denmark or Japan. Instead, we'll never have high speed rail or robust public transit and have to live with shitty cars forever. So yeah, not the best comparison. …

• @karenkornbluh Karen Kornbluh on x

  This can only be said in an environment in which we have forgotten about how democratic countries set rules - so it's not all or nothing. Cars are regulated - from speed limits, insurance, to fuel efficiency, seat belts, etc etc. https://twitter.com/...

• @billyperrigo Billy Perrigo on x

  In 2015 Volkswagen was found to have systematically lied about its emissions amid a campaign to sell more diesel cars https://twitter.com/...

• @davidshepardson @davidshepardson on x

  The total societal harm of car crashes in the United States in 2010 was $836 billion; in 2019, 36,096 people were killed and 2.7 million injured https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/ ... https://twitter.com/...

• @waldville Noah Waldman on x

  https://twitter.com/... https://twitter.com/...

• @karanbhangui Karan Bhangui on x

  I think this is largely true. Social media has huge negatives on mental health, social cohesion, and threat vector for foreign actors, but is overall hugely net positive. https://twitter.com/...

• @stsdrex @stsdrex on x

  This kind of thinking is a really reliable way to get stuck in local minimums. Cars have been successful because they offered more than horses. No one is suggesting we abandon vehicles, people are suggesting a more mature approach. Same for social media. https://twitter.com/...

• @denimandsteel @denimandsteel on x

  Oh he actually does go there, and still clocks up car culture as worth the price in blood. Are facebook execs really this monstrous, or just that clueless about the world? https://twitter.com/...

• @goldman Jason Goldman on x

  The production and use of cars is one one of the most highly regulated consumer goods on earth. https://twitter.com/...

• @mcsquared96 Monica Chin on x

  Excellent point. Let's limit Facebook use to those who have earned Facebook Licenses https://twitter.com/...

• @alexbnewhouse Alex Newhouse on x

  - cars are regulated like crazy - the greater industry around cars is literally the reason we don't have good mass transit and why pollution is so bad in the United States https://twitter.com/...

• @nathanjurgenson @nathanjurgenson on x

  the sound of a thousand STS scholars pasting this quote into their slide decks https://twitter.com/...

• @accentshift Alex Anderson on x

  the automotive industry is wildly regulated by the United States government https://twitter.com/...

• @jacksonlasarso Jackson LaSarso on x

  Great point, let's regulate Big Tech like we do cars and see what their lobbyists think https://twitter.com/...

• @sg Sean Garrett on x

  Who's the clown car now? https://twitter.com/...

• @profcarroll David Carroll on x

  Let's talk about all the regulation in the automobile industry and traffic laws and taxpayer funded public infrastructure and on and on this metaphor is not as smart as they think it is! https://twitter.com/...

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  It really does reflect a pervasive attitude among FB leadership, though, which is that FB is the victim of a general moral panic about new technology, and that its reputation will naturally recover as society adjusts to it. I guess we'll see!

• @mikeisaac Rat King on x

  lots of fine dunks on this metaphor to me what sticks out is that we are still in the realm of executive *belief* that facebook does more good than ill, not a public presentation of empirical evidence to attest to as much https://twitter.com/...

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  It's just such a weird tactic. Like if Chipotle was getting criticized for having salmonella in its guac or whatever and the CEO's response was like “well, scaled food production has had many benefits for humanity, including freeing us from being hunter-gatherers”

• @can Can Duruk on x

  I think internet did create a lot of value, and then social media companies like FB shat on it while making bank for themselves. https://twitter.com/...

• @kevinroose Kevin Roose on x

  If I worked at another tech co, this thing FB execs always do of conflating FB/IG-specific criticism with criticism of “the internet” and “social media” would really grind my gears. https://twitter.com/...

• @hypervisible Hypervisible Dot Pdf on x

  Every time one of these dudes uses a metaphor for their tech, it winds up being illuminating in all sorts of ways they definitely didn't intend. https://twitter.com/...

• @rmac18 @rmac18 on x

  At least this is a better workshopped talking point than when Mark Zuckerberg said a few years ago that Facebook should give everyone, including Holocaust deniers, a voice. All relative though. https://twitter.com/...

• @ceciliakang Cecilia Kang on x

  Perfect perfect analysis Again false logic @mosseri https://twitter.com/...

• @ryanjreilly Ryan J. Reilly on x

  Traffic violence is the no. 1 child killer in America. https://twitter.com/...

• @eliotwb Eliot Brown on x

  Analogies abound. Some say tobacco, some say cars https://twitter.com/...

• @mathewi Mathew Ingram on x

  This is true. But what if a single company, controlled by one man, was responsible for 80 percent of the car-related injuries, but still refused to install seatbelts? https://twitter.com/...

• @nishatjaan Nishat Kurwa on x

  Textbook case right here of why everyone important in tech & media talks to ⁦@pkafka⁩... https://podcasts.apple.com/...