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Chronicles

The story behind the story

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Many internet privacy proposals circulating today are in direct conflict with those to increase market competition, as they would further entrench big platforms

The consumer internet industry spent two decades building a huge, complex, chaotic pile of tools and systems to track and analyse … Tweets: @matthew_d_green , @cnbctechcheck , @sgtholly , @privacymatters , @dwellington , @neil_neilzone , @matthew_d_green , @safepress , @jason_kint , @sub8u , @benedictevans , and @benedictevans Tweets: Matthew Green / @matthew_d_green : At some point in the next few weeks I'm going to have to switch to a non-Apple OS, and I cannot convey how unhappy I am that Apple has put me here through their ineptitude. TechCheck / @cnbctechcheck : “They're in a really tough spot because they legitimately have to deal with two demands from society. One is for privacy and safety and the other is for open competition,” says @lessin on Apple's challenges amid its tense standoff with app developers. https://twitter.com/... Holly Schilling / @sgtholly : @matthew_d_green I know I'm late to the party, but if you're upset about CSAM checking, why not just disable iCloud? It disables a lot of functionality, but it's functionality you don't have on other devices already. Privacy Matters / @privacymatters : Matthew is not alone in these considerations and feelings about Apple. I've been using Apple products and services for decades. But I too am now seriously considering alternatives - but those must be easy for family too. https://twitter.com/... Dominic / @dwellington : Ads, privacy and confusion https://www.ben-evans.com/... < A very important point from @benedictevans about why exactly the intersection of adtech & privacy is so contentious: at least in part, it's because we don't even agree on what the question is, let alone the answer. Neil Brown / @neil_neilzone : I'm moved pretty much everything from macOS to Debian, but I'm finding moving my mobile device considerably harder than moving my computers. I'm giving @e_mydata a good go, but struggling without NFC payments and Canary Mail. https://twitter.com/... Matthew Green / @matthew_d_green : @sgtholly Because it's about trust. I've spent years advocating for Apple products and telling people it was better to trust the company to do right by users, rather than promoting safer alternatives. That trust was a mistake, and I can't tell people to switch if I don't do it too. @safepress : I'm amazed it's taken Matt so long. Not that other vendors are so trustworthy, but that using Apple has always been even more expensive, suffocating and manipulative, while security and privacy benefits (on mobile) always seemed overstated, and have proven worthless. https://twitter.com/... Jason Kint / @jason_kint : Sigh. I guess this is where I remind everyone Lessin isn't just a “former employee” and his name is all over FB antitrust evidence. Also, it's entirely a bad SV meme to try to turn Facebook probs on Apple to argue competition and privacy are at odds. @carlquintanilla @JBoorstin https://twitter.com/... Subrahmanyam Kvj / @sub8u : This is a good thought-provoking piece from @benedictevans on ads, our ideas on privacy & how steps that regulators are taking for ‘privacy’ might end up making the big, bigger. The big qn, at this point is indeed - are we debating the right questions? https://www.ben-evans.com/... https://twitter.com/... Benedict Evans / @benedictevans : It's tough to build private systems when we don't agree on what makes something private. Apple, the privacy company, thought it built a private CSAM scanning system. Is ‘on device’ private or not? What's the rule? Benedict Evans / @benedictevans : Can we achieve the economic aims of online ads in a private way? Probably - advertisers don't really want to know who you are - they want to show diaper ads to people who have babies, not to show them to people who don't, and to have some sense of which ads works. But...

Benedict Evans

Discussion

  • @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
    At some point in the next few weeks I'm going to have to switch to a non-Apple OS, and I cannot convey how unhappy I am that Apple has put me here through their ineptitude.
  • @cnbctechcheck TechCheck on x
    “They're in a really tough spot because they legitimately have to deal with two demands from society. One is for privacy and safety and the other is for open competition,” says @lessin on Apple's challenges amid its tense standoff with app developers. https://twitter.com/...
  • @sgtholly Holly Schilling on x
    @matthew_d_green I know I'm late to the party, but if you're upset about CSAM checking, why not just disable iCloud? It disables a lot of functionality, but it's functionality you don't have on other devices already.
  • @matthew_d_green Matthew Green on x
    @sgtholly Because it's about trust. I've spent years advocating for Apple products and telling people it was better to trust the company to do right by users, rather than promoting safer alternatives. That trust was a mistake, and I can't tell people to switch if I don't do it to…
  • @privacymatters Privacy Matters on x
    Matthew is not alone in these considerations and feelings about Apple. I've been using Apple products and services for decades. But I too am now seriously considering alternatives - but those must be easy for family too. https://twitter.com/...
  • @jason_kint Jason Kint on x
    Sigh. I guess this is where I remind everyone Lessin isn't just a “former employee” and his name is all over FB antitrust evidence. Also, it's entirely a bad SV meme to try to turn Facebook probs on Apple to argue competition and privacy are at odds. @carlquintanilla @JBoorstin h…
  • @sub8u Subrahmanyam Kvj on x
    This is a good thought-provoking piece from @benedictevans on ads, our ideas on privacy & how steps that regulators are taking for ‘privacy’ might end up making the big, bigger. The big qn, at this point is indeed - are we debating the right questions? https://www.ben-evans.com/.…
  • @safepress @safepress on x
    I'm amazed it's taken Matt so long. Not that other vendors are so trustworthy, but that using Apple has always been even more expensive, suffocating and manipulative, while security and privacy benefits (on mobile) always seemed overstated, and have proven worthless. https://twit…
  • @dwellington Dominic on x
    Ads, privacy and confusion https://www.ben-evans.com/... < A very important point from @benedictevans about why exactly the intersection of adtech & privacy is so contentious: at least in part, it's because we don't even agree on what the question is, let alone the answer.
  • @neil_neilzone Neil Brown on x
    I'm moved pretty much everything from macOS to Debian, but I'm finding moving my mobile device considerably harder than moving my computers. I'm giving @e_mydata a good go, but struggling without NFC payments and Canary Mail. https://twitter.com/...
  • @benedictevans Benedict Evans on x
    It's tough to build private systems when we don't agree on what makes something private. Apple, the privacy company, thought it built a private CSAM scanning system. Is ‘on device’ private or not? What's the rule?
  • @benedictevans Benedict Evans on x
    Can we achieve the economic aims of online ads in a private way? Probably - advertisers don't really want to know who you are - they want to show diaper ads to people who have babies, not to show them to people who don't, and to have some sense of which ads works. But...