Judge denies Epic's motion to restore Fortnite to the App Store but orders Apple to not block Unreal Engine; full hearing scheduled for September 28
Epic Games won a temporary restraining order against Apple, at least in part — Epic Games just won a temporary restraining order against Apple — at least in part.
The Verge
Related Coverage
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- Judge issues restraining order protecting Unreal Engine development on iOS Ars Technica · Kyle Orland
- Epic battle: Judge rules Apple can boot Fortnite from the App Store, but not Unreal Engine Macworld · Michael Simon
- Judge in Epic vs Apple case is “inclined” to not let Apple block Epic from developing/offering Unreal Engine but feels the opposite about Fortnite removal Fortune
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Discussion
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
To Epic: “Your client created this situation. Your client does not come to this action with clean hands ..... in my view, you cannot have irreparable harm when you create the harm yourself.”
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
holy goddamn shit the cravath partner representing epic today is...... katherine b. forrest, the judge from the silk road case
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@markgurman
Mark Gurman
on x
Judge in Epic vs Apple case says she is “inclined” to NOT grant relief for the Fornite removal (as in, to not force Apple to put it back on the App Store,) but IS “inclined” to not let Apple block Epic from developing/distributing Unreal Engine. Inclined is not a decision.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
YGR: *mutes him on Zoom* I get to mute you. I get to interrupt you. I asked you a simple question: yes or no?
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@b_fung
Brian Fung
on x
The judge is expressing deep doubts about Apple's walled garden ecosystem. “If you have an iphone you can't buy [apps] from anyone else. You can't. You are limited to buying it from Apple.” “I can't buy it from Google. I can't buy it from Amazon. There is no competition.”
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@markgurman
Mark Gurman
on x
The Judge has now issued her official temporary order: Epic Games is NOT granted relief to get Fornite back on the App Store, but she is ordering Apple to NOT block development/distribution of Unreal Engine. https://twitter.com/...
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
My immediate reaction is that it's pretty obvious that the TRO re: Fortnite will not be granted, but it's likely there will be a TRO re: Unreal Engine (unblocking that dev account, presumably).
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@skupor
Scott Kupor
on x
“The current predicament appears of its own making.” https://twitter.com/...
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Doren: Epic Games International S.a.r.l. is Epic Games, it's Unreal Engine... YGR: I thought I read that they were two separate companies. Are they — Doren: There is an Epic SARL entity, and it has an account with Apple, as does Epic Games.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
“Did we understand what we were doing? Yes, we did.” Forrest says they geared up for a fight because they knew it was “the only way to break the chokehold that Apple has on its payment system and the prohibition it has on competition.”
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
YGR: You must concede that the revocation of the engine will negatively impact third parties. Doren: It's self-inflicted — not self-inflicted, I mean it's manufactured by —
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest says there was no opportunity with the speed of the TRO proceeding to brief on these cases. YGR is unhappy. “You brought this affirmatively.” “They are well-known anti-trust cases,” says Forrest.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest: We'd never hide it. There are lines and lines of — YGR: I get to interrupt. That's my privilege
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest: We don't have to have a complete decimation of our business so that — YGR: *interrupts* It's not a decimation. Then gives floor to Apple lol
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Doren: Your honor is completely right that this was a willful breach by Epic, it was strategic in nature, it was positioned so Epic could profit from its breach while this litigation proceeds, and this court should not bless a breach so that Epic can profit by its wrongdoing.
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@realshiina
Shiina
on x
The judge is completely triggered that the Apple lawyer can't answer a Yes or No question with a simple Yes or No. EPIC GAMES OFFICIALLY WON.
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@paultassi
Paul Tassi
on x
it feels like Epic will escape the utter destruction of Unreal on iOS and yet this is miles away from the original point of all this: forcing Apple to reduce its 30% app store cut, which will be decided much later
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@paultassi
Paul Tassi
on x
Wouldn't be surprised if Apple taking this extra step to try to kill Unreal bites them later. Like why should a company have this much power over an ecosystem where they can effectively just destroy an entire game engine and all the apps it's attached to out of spite
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@b_fung
Brian Fung
on x
All right, that's all. My own impressions: The judge seems really irritated by Epic's tactics but is very conscious of how Apple's business model could be abused to reduce competition. She warned this case will be complex and “interesting” and won't be resolved by TRO or PI.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
(SARL entity = an international corporate entity; so this is a separate corporation but Apple thinks this is a shell corp and wants these two corporations treated as the same).
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@grummz
@grummz
on x
No company gives up hundreds of millions of dollars in advance, planning to do a lawsuit that is risky to win, without a strategy. No board would approve it. This is not about the lawsuit, it's about a big move coming from Epic. https://twitter.com/...
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
To paraphrase, Apple's case re: Unreal Engine is that Epic is sockpuppeting, Epic's case is that Unreal Engine is from a completely different dev account and this is retaliation for Epic did with Fortnite.
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@slasher
Rod Breslau
on x
this is great for all the game developers who rely on Unreal Engine, but without Fortnite back on this seems like an early win for Apple over Epic https://www.bloomberg.com/...
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@markgurman
Mark Gurman
on x
The Judge says Apple's move to block Unreal Engine appears to be “Retaliatory.”
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest says hotfixes are neither novel nor nefarious, despite how Apple characterizes it. YGR: Epic Games didn't tell Apple that you had code in there that would allow you to collect directly from your consumers, right?
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@markgurman
Mark Gurman
on x
Epic's lawyer: Asking Epic to remove the direct payment to Epic option in Fornite is “really asking us to require consumers to pay more than they should in a competitive environment.”
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@matthewstoller
Matt Stoller
on x
Wow looks like Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers seems to think Apple's app store is a monopoly and is likely to grant a temporary restraining order on behalf of Epic Games. I am generally not optimistic about private antitrust suits, so this is a pleasant surprise. https://twitter.co…
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@frank_supercell
@frank_supercell
on x
The story continues - this likely means no @FortniteGame on mobile (through App Store & Google Play) for the upcoming Season 4. Really tough situation for the (mobile) player base and content creators who focused on Fortnite mobile. 😐 #epic #apple #fortnite https://twitter.com/..…
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Doren says that Epic's conduct “would spread like a virus” if Apple is forced to maintain Unreal Engine.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest: “We are already getting the kind of customer complaints that goes to the irreparable harm to our reputation”
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest: We're not saying SARL is not affiliated with Epic Games. What we're saying is they've reached out beyond the contracts and the accounts..... where the in-app purchasing conflict occurred. ... These are independent contracts. This is purely a pressure tactic.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
YGR: I don't know if this is a shell corporation. I don't know if there is going to be piercing of the corporate veil. But I know there are two separate contracts. ... and two separate fees
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest: “We are getting consumer complaints every day that people are quitting.” Adds that they have no control over payments made over Apple's own payment system, and that customers are asking them for refunds they cannot make.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
re TRO for Epic — “I am not inclined to grant relief with respect to the games, but I am inclined to grant relief with respect to Unreal Engine”
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
Forrest speaking for Epic, points to SCOTUS cases saying that unclean hands are not a defense in an antitrust case. Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers asks if these cases were briefed. They were not.
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@sarahjeong
Sarah Jeong
on x
YGR: “With respect to Unreal Engine, that seems like an overreach.” Says that the contract with Epic International is not in breach, even if the contract with Epic Games is. Says that it looks retaliatory to her.
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@stroughtonsmith
Steve Troughton-Smith
on x
It was fascinating to watch just how impatient the judge was with Apple's arguments in the Epic v Apple TRO hearing. Apple really played the part of arrogant monopolist mob boss, and it didn't seem like anybody was convinced 😅