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Matt Mullenweg responds to DHH's claim that “Automattic is doing open source dirty”, pointing out Rails' own trademark policy and taking some jabs at 37signals

RE: https://www.threads.net/... Casey Newton / @crumbler : The number of ad hominem personal attacks against DHH in here that have nothing to do with the issue are extremely telling. Joe Rosenthal / @joe_rosenthal : WP Engine ought to be the villains of any open source story, but Matt Mullenweg is behaving so ghoukishly here, and essentially is contorting the WordPress license to try to harm them and get more of their money.  It's a bad precedent for WordPress and for any open source project with an associated commercial entity. … Jack Milton / @itsjackmilton : You are understanding correctly: Matt Mullenweg tried to extort WP Engine into paying him or else he would declare “nuclear war” on them.  They didn't pay so he publicly called them a cancer.  Then he sued them.  159 of his employees quit.  WPE sued back. … Adam Tinworth / @adders : A good rule to keep online debate constructive is “play the ball, not the man”.  If you attack the poster, not the ideas, you're playing the man.  —  Mullenweg's response to DHH is pure playing the man, not the ball. https://ma.tt/... Mastodon: Matt Mullenweg / @photomatt@mastodon.social : Response to DHH  —  I'll just remind everyone at the start that this a respectful debate, and DHH and I tried to get on a call but couldn't because we were both traveling.  However, “Automattic is doing open source dirty” is an abomination of a headline, and David's second post Open source royalty and mad kings, is just sloppy. … Mathew Ingram / @mathewi@journa.host : When Matt Mullenweg talks about contributing to open source, he says that he doesn't own the WordPress trademark, which is technically true, but the nonprofit that owns it gave WordPress.com, which Matt owns, exclusive control over all of the economic rights https://ma.tt/... Adam Tinworth / @adders@masto.onemanandhisblog.com : A good rule to keep online debate constructive is “play the ball, not the man”.  If you attack the poster, not the ideas, you're playing the man.  —  Mullenweg's response to DHH is pure playing the man, not the ball. https://ma.tt/... @Aaron@social.aaroncrocco.com : Look, I'm no fan of DHH but when your response to someone's criticisms enter “talk to your therapist” territory, YOU HAVE LOST THE NARRATIVE.  Mullenweg is single-handedly embarrassing himself and the ENTIRE #WordPress community. … Richard MacManus / @ricmac@mastodon.social : Wow, just when you thought he couldn't dig any further... it's actually just sad and pathetic now.  When will the WP community say enough is enough?!  I suspect the hole will get dug some more before that happens. https://ma.tt/... @jbz@indieweb.social : I made a joke about Mullenweg doing a distrack and it kinda happened https://ma.tt/...  I love seeing titans of opensource going at it during highschool recess.  It fills me with the confidence that any fool can do it.  —  #wordpress #mullenweg #opensource Ernie Smith / @ernie@writing.exchange : Matt stop you're making people become DHH fans  —  https://ma.tt/... @Scmbradley@mathstodon.xyz : So the thing is, I think I kind of agree with Matt Mullenweg on his (ostensible) motivations for all the bullshit: yeah, companies profiting from open source projects should contribute more.  But like, dude.  This is not the way to make the point, you fuckn weirdo. … Bluesky: @sjvn.bsky.social : Mullenweg appears to be losing it.  [embedded post] X: @dhh : Maybe I'm supposed to get mad at this, but instead I just get sad. Mullenweg clearly sees it as a failure to create much more value in the world than what you capture, and maybe that's the root of our differences. I see that as a proud achievement. https://ma.tt/... @can : I think someone needs to take away the keyboard from this guy for a bit. https://ma.tt/... John-Daniel Trask / @traskjd : Let's look at what's really going on. Here's the data: - raised at 3b valuation in 2019 - raised at 7.5b valuation in 2021 In the last couple of days, Matt has acknowledged: - Automattics revenue is about 500m ARR (the DHH response) - There are liquidation preferences Waqas Ali / @waqasali : I've been watching the Automattic vs. WP Engine situation from the sidelines, and on the trademark issue, I side with @photomatt. ‘WP Engine’ can easily be mistaken for ‘WordPress Engine,’ which is a big marketing problem. It's clear why customers might assume they're an official Kache / @yacinemtb : i think matt is right about suing WP engine because its obviously trademark but you can't clown DHH for not having users and then being mad that he has a 2 million dollar car and a beautiful office Armin Ronacher / @mitsuhiko : Matt needs help. https://ma.tt/... Daniel Vassallo / @dvassallo : @dhh Maybe I'm missing something, but it's WPEngine not WordPressEngine. Does he own a trademark for “WP”? Or is trademark law broad enough to include initials? Or is it because they mention WordPress in their marketing copy? So bizarre. [image] Adam Rackis / @adamrackis : The unhinged Wordpress dude tried talking shit to a guy whose office looks like this. It went as well as would be expected 😅 [image] @levelsio : Such a weird ad hominem I'm speechless DHH came with respectful arguments Matt came back with childish insults [image] Gergely Orosz / @gergelyorosz : @dhh One of you stays positive and level-headed throughout this debate and the other one not much. It's a shame seeing Automattic dig the hole deeper with every move, and ignoring neutral, generally well-meaning viewpoints. Fully agreed, thanks for putting it like this: @fireship_dev : I'm with @photomatt on this one If you watch my YouTube programming tutorials and end up making money, I will come after you for my 8% cut Rian Rietveld / @rianrietveld : I'll just drop this here. Matt Mullenweg responding to the a11y team reps not being able to log-in: “We should find some new team reps to replace them, do you have any suggestions?” https://make.wordpress.org/... [image] Joshua Benton / @jbenton : If this seems bad now, check what it looked like when first published, before he cut the worst graf: https://ma.tt/... https://archive.is/4yLNR [image] @dhh : “The open source spirit: To let a billion lemons go unsqueezed. To capture vanishingly less than you create. To marvel at a vast commons of software, offered with no strings attached, to any who might wish to build.” https://world.hey.com/... Nicholas Garofalo / @eidolonnight : It's a shame to see other #OpenSource leaders try to take swings at @photomatt when they don't have their own houses in order. Working in public doesn't mean throwing shade in an attempt to clout-chase. https://ma.tt/... Kellie Peterson / @kellie : Y'all! In @photomatt's latest screed he is saying the quiet part out LOUD. Uh, Matt is on record multiple times talking about the WordPress economy and how most of the value is captured by others. https://wordpress.org/... https://ma.tt/... This was never about core [image] Rich Harris / @rich_harris : literally could not care less about wordpress — sorry — but rubbernecking doesn't get better than this saga. every day this man stares at us, unblinking, and says 'think i can't get more unhinged? WELL WATCH THIS' https://ma.tt/... Jeremiah Prummer / @jeremiahprummer : @dhh I always thought that a desire to create more value than you capture was at the very heart of open source. Even in our non open source company we always say our goal is to generate at least 10x more value than we capture. Paul Bertrand / @pbertrand_dev : @levelsio Yep, Never seen someone destroy their own brand/reputation so quickly. Must be something else going on. Sad, really worried about future of WP right now. Nick Dobos / @nickadobos : Mullenweg lost the plot. Wordpress is doomed. First line: “I'll just remind everyone at the start that this is a respectful debate” Proceeds to go crazy and lash out. Ad hominem like crazy. Wow. [image] @_orcaman : @dhh “although he has invented about half a trillion dollars worth of good ideas, most of the value has been captured by others” - is that guy for real? Open source is all about creating a platform bigger than oneself. It's like saying Linus screwed up with Linux because he's Tom Warren / @tomwarren : @dhh I used to have a lot of respect for Mullenweg, but his true colors are now on full display @joserosado : @levelsio 2+2=4 [image] @dhh : So I'll reaffirm my wish that WordPress finds a way out of this mess. And Matt too. Even Automattic. I don't think people are irredeemable, and I know how stressful it can be to be under siege. But you have to stop digging to get out of a hole. Theo / @t3dotgg : @dhh You've carried yourself more than admirably through this one. Thank you for standing up for what's right for OSS. @dhh : I'm thrilled that Shopify came to be worth damn near $100 billion using Rails. I wouldn't want to trade Basecamp for Atlassian (or any other company!). And to me it's beautiful to inspire others without needing them to pay you a cut! Different strokes, I guess! LinkedIn: Ryan Szrama : I appreciated David weighing in on the situation with #WordPress to advocate for better leadership in open source, and I was once again surprised by the pettiness of Matt's response. … Forums: Hacker News : Response to DHH - Matt Mullenweg r/Wordpress : Response to DHH |  Matt Mullenweg r/theprimeagen : Response to DHH |  Matt Mullenweg r/Wordpress : Response to DHH |  Matt Mullenweg Beehaw : WordPress bans WP Engine from sponsoring user groups • The Register

Matt Mullenweg

Context & Ripple Effects

Mullenweg’s rebuttal lands amid an escalating dispute over WordPress governance and commercial access. He had said Automattic had long pursued a licensing deal with WP Engine, then cut WP Engine’s free WordPress.org access; the conflict subsequently extended to a fork of WP Engine-developed Advanced Custom Fields.

DHH’s criticism shifts the argument beyond that bilateral dispute: Mullenweg invokes Rails’ trademark policy, while critics focus on whether a project’s open-source license, trademark controls, and commercial operator are being used consistently. Earlier statements that WordPress.org belongs to Mullenweg personally sharpen that governance question.

First-order effects

  • The public exchange makes the disagreement a broader reputational contest between Automattic/WordPress and 37signals/DHH, rather than a dispute confined to WP Engine.
  • Mullenweg’s Rails trademark comparison puts trademark governance—not just copyright licensing—at the center of the open-source debate.

Second-order effects

  • WordPress developers, hosts, and plugin makers have more reason to scrutinize which project resources are governed by open rules and which are subject to trademark or platform-owner discretion.
  • Public criticism of Mullenweg’s approach can raise the communication and trust costs of further enforcement moves, particularly after WP Engine’s access restrictions and the ACF fork.

Third-order effects

  • If maintainers increasingly use trademarks, directories, and other project infrastructure alongside permissive code licenses, open-source adoption decisions may weigh governance predictability as heavily as the license itself.
  • The episode points to a durable fault line in commercially backed open source: formal rights may permit enforcement, but community legitimacy depends on how clearly control, process, and conflicts are separated.

The trend: Commercially backed open-source projects are facing greater pressure to define how trademark and infrastructure control coexist with community expectations of openness.

Discussion

  • @ananth.7 Ananth Talam on threads
    As a WordPress designer for 10 years, I'm struggling with recent changes.  Can I still recommend it to clients?  This industry shift is forcing me to rethink my entire business.  How are other WP designers adapting?  Are you exploring new platforms or strategies? …
  • @benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads
    The advantage of open source is that if Matt Mullenweg really does implode Wordpress in the next few months (and people are starting to wonder), that doesn't take down all of the companies that depend on it.
  • @poshy Lynn Collette on threads
    Oh no oh no someone please tell Matt he doesn't have to post through it.  This is so embarrassing. https://ma.tt/...
  • @benedictevans Benedict Evans on threads
    I am hearing disturbing rumors that DHH has been involved in some drama.
  • @laurengoode Lauren Goode on threads
    babe wake up the open source guys are fighting again
  • @jonporteruk Jon Porter on threads
    Signing off with the word"respectfully" at the end of the pettiest blog post ever written really is quite something from WordPress's founder https://ma.tt/...
  • @tookthescenicroute Jon Gales on threads
    Working with PHP for 20 years changes a man
  • @parkert Parker Thompson on threads
    Did Matt get hooked up with Elon's dealer?  What the heck is even going on over there?  —  RE: https://www.threads.net/...
  • @crumbler Casey Newton on threads
    The number of ad hominem personal attacks against DHH in here that have nothing to do with the issue are extremely telling.
  • @joe_rosenthal Joe Rosenthal on threads
    WP Engine ought to be the villains of any open source story, but Matt Mullenweg is behaving so ghoukishly here, and essentially is contorting the WordPress license to try to harm them and get more of their money.  It's a bad precedent for WordPress and for any open source project…
  • @itsjackmilton Jack Milton on threads
    You are understanding correctly: Matt Mullenweg tried to extort WP Engine into paying him or else he would declare “nuclear war” on them.  They didn't pay so he publicly called them a cancer.  Then he sued them.  159 of his employees quit.  WPE sued back. …
  • @adders Adam Tinworth on threads
    A good rule to keep online debate constructive is “play the ball, not the man”.  If you attack the poster, not the ideas, you're playing the man.  —  Mullenweg's response to DHH is pure playing the man, not the ball. https://ma.tt/...
  • @photomatt@mastodon.social Matt Mullenweg on mastodon
    Response to DHH  —  I'll just remind everyone at the start that this a respectful debate, and DHH and I tried to get on a call but couldn't because we were both traveling.  However, “Automattic is doing open source dirty” is an abomination of a headline, and David's second post O…
  • @ricmac@mastodon.social Richard MacManus on mastodon
    Wow, just when you thought he couldn't dig any further... it's actually just sad and pathetic now.  When will the WP community say enough is enough?!  I suspect the hole will get dug some more before that happens. https://ma.tt/...
  • @sjvn.bsky.social @sjvn.bsky.social on bluesky
    Mullenweg appears to be losing it.  [embedded post]
  • @dhh @dhh on x
    Maybe I'm supposed to get mad at this, but instead I just get sad. Mullenweg clearly sees it as a failure to create much more value in the world than what you capture, and maybe that's the root of our differences. I see that as a proud achievement. https://ma.tt/...
  • @can @can on x
    I think someone needs to take away the keyboard from this guy for a bit. https://ma.tt/...
  • @traskjd John-Daniel Trask on x
    Let's look at what's really going on. Here's the data: - raised at 3b valuation in 2019 - raised at 7.5b valuation in 2021 In the last couple of days, Matt has acknowledged: - Automattics revenue is about 500m ARR (the DHH response) - There are liquidation preferences
  • @waqasali Waqas Ali on x
    I've been watching the Automattic vs. WP Engine situation from the sidelines, and on the trademark issue, I side with @photomatt. ‘WP Engine’ can easily be mistaken for ‘WordPress Engine,’ which is a big marketing problem. It's clear why customers might assume they're an official
  • @yacinemtb Kache on x
    i think matt is right about suing WP engine because its obviously trademark but you can't clown DHH for not having users and then being mad that he has a 2 million dollar car and a beautiful office
  • @mitsuhiko Armin Ronacher on x
    Matt needs help. https://ma.tt/...
  • @dvassallo Daniel Vassallo on x
    @dhh Maybe I'm missing something, but it's WPEngine not WordPressEngine. Does he own a trademark for “WP”? Or is trademark law broad enough to include initials? Or is it because they mention WordPress in their marketing copy? So bizarre. [image]
  • @adamrackis Adam Rackis on x
    The unhinged Wordpress dude tried talking shit to a guy whose office looks like this. It went as well as would be expected 😅 [image]
  • @levelsio @levelsio on x
    Such a weird ad hominem I'm speechless DHH came with respectful arguments Matt came back with childish insults [image]
  • @gergelyorosz Gergely Orosz on x
    @dhh One of you stays positive and level-headed throughout this debate and the other one not much. It's a shame seeing Automattic dig the hole deeper with every move, and ignoring neutral, generally well-meaning viewpoints. Fully agreed, thanks for putting it like this:
  • @fireship_dev @fireship_dev on x
    I'm with @photomatt on this one If you watch my YouTube programming tutorials and end up making money, I will come after you for my 8% cut
  • @rianrietveld Rian Rietveld on x
    I'll just drop this here. Matt Mullenweg responding to the a11y team reps not being able to log-in: “We should find some new team reps to replace them, do you have any suggestions?” https://make.wordpress.org/... [image]
  • @jbenton Joshua Benton on x
    If this seems bad now, check what it looked like when first published, before he cut the worst graf: https://ma.tt/... https://archive.is/4yLNR [image]
  • @dhh @dhh on x
    “The open source spirit: To let a billion lemons go unsqueezed. To capture vanishingly less than you create. To marvel at a vast commons of software, offered with no strings attached, to any who might wish to build.” https://world.hey.com/...
  • @eidolonnight Nicholas Garofalo on x
    It's a shame to see other #OpenSource leaders try to take swings at @photomatt when they don't have their own houses in order. Working in public doesn't mean throwing shade in an attempt to clout-chase. https://ma.tt/...
  • @kellie Kellie Peterson on x
    Y'all! In @photomatt's latest screed he is saying the quiet part out LOUD. Uh, Matt is on record multiple times talking about the WordPress economy and how most of the value is captured by others. https://wordpress.org/... https://ma.tt/... This was never about core [image]
  • @rich_harris Rich Harris on x
    literally could not care less about wordpress — sorry — but rubbernecking doesn't get better than this saga. every day this man stares at us, unblinking, and says 'think i can't get more unhinged? WELL WATCH THIS' https://ma.tt/...
  • @jeremiahprummer Jeremiah Prummer on x
    @dhh I always thought that a desire to create more value than you capture was at the very heart of open source. Even in our non open source company we always say our goal is to generate at least 10x more value than we capture.
  • @pbertrand_dev Paul Bertrand on x
    @levelsio Yep, Never seen someone destroy their own brand/reputation so quickly. Must be something else going on. Sad, really worried about future of WP right now.
  • @nickadobos Nick Dobos on x
    Mullenweg lost the plot. Wordpress is doomed. First line: “I'll just remind everyone at the start that this is a respectful debate” Proceeds to go crazy and lash out. Ad hominem like crazy. Wow. [image]
  • @_orcaman @_orcaman on x
    @dhh “although he has invented about half a trillion dollars worth of good ideas, most of the value has been captured by others” - is that guy for real? Open source is all about creating a platform bigger than oneself. It's like saying Linus screwed up with Linux because he's
  • @tomwarren Tom Warren on x
    @dhh I used to have a lot of respect for Mullenweg, but his true colors are now on full display
  • @joserosado @joserosado on x
    @levelsio 2+2=4 [image]
  • @dhh @dhh on x
    So I'll reaffirm my wish that WordPress finds a way out of this mess. And Matt too. Even Automattic. I don't think people are irredeemable, and I know how stressful it can be to be under siege. But you have to stop digging to get out of a hole.
  • @t3dotgg Theo on x
    @dhh You've carried yourself more than admirably through this one. Thank you for standing up for what's right for OSS.
  • @dhh @dhh on x
    I'm thrilled that Shopify came to be worth damn near $100 billion using Rails. I wouldn't want to trade Basecamp for Atlassian (or any other company!). And to me it's beautiful to inspire others without needing them to pay you a cut! Different strokes, I guess!
  • r/Wordpress r on reddit
    Response to DHH |  Matt Mullenweg
  • r/theprimeagen r on reddit
    Response to DHH |  Matt Mullenweg
  • r/Wordpress r on reddit
    Response to DHH |  Matt Mullenweg