Q&A with Zuckerberg about his vision for the metaverse and its potential to further splinter our sense of shared reality, Biden's comments about Facebook, more

The Verge 2021-07-23 Casey Newton

Context & Ripple Effects

This Q&A is one installment in a multi-year run of Zuckerberg interviews that The Verge has used as Meta's de facto roadmap. In September 2020 he framed VR's mainstream moment around the pandemic and AR glasses (why he doesn't want an Apple Watch on your face), by May 2021 the focus was pro-tier Quest features and the Horizon world, and this July conversation is where the 'metaverse' framing goes public — paired with Biden publicly criticizing Facebook.

What makes the timing notable is that Facebook was simultaneously testing a full-screen immersive video player designed to replace the News Feed at app launch in select international markets, and reimagining Creator Studio as a standalone app with a built-in AI chatbot. The metaverse pitch and the feed replacement are two faces of the same pivot: moving engagement off the scroll and into owned, immersive surfaces.

First-order effects

Zuckerberg commits Facebook publicly to the metaverse as its next platform while critics in the same conversation flag that immersive worlds could further splinter shared reality — putting the company's own preferred narrative under scrutiny from day one.
Biden's critical comments about Facebook land alongside the Ceuta disinformation reporting, adding White House pressure at the exact moment the company is asking users and creators to accept a feed replaced by an immersive video player.

Second-order effects

Creators become the conversion mechanism: the Creator Studio relaunch with its AI chatbot is how Facebook moves its creator base onto the new immersive surfaces before competitors lock them in.
With Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and TikTok already capturing over 90% of social media ad revenue per Omdia, any successful pivot to metaverse-style inventory concentrates ad dollars further, leaving smaller platforms bidding for what's left.

Third-order effects

If the pattern holds across the later interviews — Quest Pro and mixed reality in 2022, Codec Avatars in 2023, Orion AR glasses in 2024 — content moderation and misinformation policy migrate from text feeds into embodied avatar spaces, where existing regulatory frameworks have little precedent.
A sitting president publicly criticizing Facebook while it redefines its core product points toward platform governance becoming a standing executive-branch issue rather than a periodic scandal cycle.

The trend: Facebook is serially reframing itself through founder interviews and product pivots — feed to metaverse, metaverse to AR glasses — while political pressure and shared-reality concerns grow in parallel rather than slowing the pivot.

Discussion

@angelsdiaz_ Ángel Díaz on x
Facebook's internal investigations unit “could check, for instance, if the phone of a Facebook employee had been in close proximity to the phone of a reporter from a news outlet that had recently run a scoop about the company.” 🤔 how would FB get the reporter's location data?
@caseynewton Casey Newton on x
At the end of June, Mark Zuckerberg told employees he had a new goal: to turn Facebook into “a metaverse company.” I talked to him about what that means https://www.theverge.com/... https://twitter.com/...
@voxdotcom @voxdotcom on x
In a new interview with @verge, Mark Zuckerberg explains why “we will effectively transition from people seeing [Facebook] as primarily being a social media company to being a metaverse company.” https://www.theverge.com/... https://twitter.com/...
@reckless Nilay Patel on x
I think “who gets to augment reality” is a pass / fail test for everyone thinking about AR - a content moderation problem with the potential to destroy the world. Judge for yourself! https://www.theverge.com/... https://twitter.com/...
@caseynewton Casey Newton on x
It's a lot! A big bold vision that seems great for artists and creators; fraught with dangers for democracy; and that Facebook is now committing to build. You can check out our conversation here via the podcast or a transcript. https://www.theverge.com/...
@ballmatthew Matthew Ball on x
Great and unexpected shout out from Zuckerberg today in @CaseyNewton's deep dive into Facebook's efforts to become “a Metaverse company” Verge Piece: https://www.theverge.com/... Primer: https://www.matthewball.vc/... https://twitter.com/...
@reckless Nilay Patel on x
Here's ⁦@CaseyNewton talking to Mark Zuckerberg about his vision for AR, VR, and the metaverse. It... is a big vision. https://www.theverge.com/...
@oliversegovia Oliver Segovia on x
Can't underestimate how big this is. The metaverse as a concept has been floating around in FB internal docs as early as the mid-2010s (maybe earlier?). Now, it's a governing framework and mission that'll show up in earnings calls. Floodgates! https://twitter.com/...
@kentbye Kent Bye VoicesOfVR on x
4/ Zuckerberg's interview with @CaseyNewton gives a bit more insight as to what exactly Facebook means when they evoke “metaverse” rhetoric, but at F8 Facebook also said SparkAR was “one of the foundational technologies for building the metaverse.” How? https://twitter.com/...
@dens @dens on x
This!👇🏼 (um, where can i get my “DEFEND IRL” t-shirt?) https://twitter.com/...
@rmac18 Ryan Mac🙃 on x
Facebook: your privacy is our priority Also Facebook: https://twitter.com/...
@syardi Sarita Schoenebeck on x
Zuck invoking the metaphor of fighting crime in cities is an intriguing choice when there's substantial and compelling evidence that how cities fight crime (in the U.S.) is flawed and discriminatory. https://twitter.com/...
@broderick Ryan Broderick on x
There's a version The Metaverse where a company like Facebook would be irrelevant and there's a version of The Metaverse where a company like Facebook owns it or a version of it and the difference between those 2 outcomes has profound implications for the openness of the web! htt…
@wiggo Matthew Wiggins on x
That sound you can hear is Second Life spinning in it's grave. https://twitter.com/...
@jathansadowski Jathan Sadowski on x
idk personally I just take everything these professional bullshitters say with a huge mountain of salt. The purpose of statements like this is to just give the stock a jolt. It's the only way they can feel some fleeting approximation of “alive” https://www.theverge.com/...
@swt2102 Simon Taylor on x
I worked on aspects of this when I was at FB, so I can't comment with any specificity. But I strongly urge anyone with an interest in what our future will (likely) look like to read @CaseyNewton's typically insightful interview with Zuck. https://www.theverge.com/... via @Verge
@stollmeyereu @stollmeyereu on x
Think Facebook is bad now? Wait until you see the new Facebook: Dave Eggers' novel The Circle coming alive 😱 @CaseyNewton interviews Zuckerberg: https://www.theverge.com/...
@joshuacorvinus JCorvinus on x
They really are making this a whole-company effort. Respectable, IMO. Hopefully it gets the world to actually pay attention and understand the value of this tech https://twitter.com/...
@ballmatthew Matthew Ball on x
Which isn't to say where we end up on the spectrum isn't important. It defines where profits go, which rights users have, how easy it is for new platforms to emerge, level of competition It's a problem, for example, Apple can just “no” technologies, business models, competition
@clairesilver12 Claire Silver on x
1) In 2014, Facebook acquired Oculus VR. 2) In 2020, Facebook released a beta for “Facebook Horizon,” a “world creation system” for Oculus. 2) In 2021, Facebook says they are transitioning into a “metaverse company.” Like or hate Zuckerburg, it's easy to spot what comes next. htt…
@evelyndouek Evelyn Douek on x
the content moderation wars in AR/VR are gonna be lit and i can't wait for arguments about whether s230 and Real Law even applies to different Worlds and Universes like the good old days (excited for my research agenda!) https://twitter.com/...
@heif Scott Heiferman on x
Mark Zuckerberg today: “you can think about the metaverse as an embodied internet, where instead of just viewing content — you are in it” THIS IS NOT GOOD. Your body matters. You are not media. DEFEND IRL (via @markhurst) https://twitter.com/...
@mikeelgan Mike Elgan on x
Zuck wants to pivot Facebook to be a “metaverse company.” How about pivoting to becoming an ethical company instead? https://www.theverge.com/...
@ballmatthew Matthew Ball on x
Blockchain-based platforms, worlds, tech, etc., can play a critical role in where we end up on the centralization v decentralization + closed v open spectrum But there's also a reason these businesses are venture backed, valued in the billions, attract most spending/users/time
@rcohen Rachel Cohen on x
I appreciate the PR effort that went into this particular talking point, which sounds on the surface like it makes sense but does not hold up to like a single second of analytic scrutiny. https://twitter.com/...
@jason_kint Jason Kint on x
Lol, no. Just no. Bezos has such better FUD. Recall when Zuckerberg said nearly everything would be video within five years then we learned in a fraud lawsuit FB was allowing bogus numbers to be pushed out. Their core and only real biz is microtargeted ads on feeds. Won't change.…
@karaswisher Kara Swisher on x
Most striking quote rom @CaseyNewton interview with @finkd about the “metaverse” and more: “It's a little bit like fighting crime in a city,” [Mark Zuckerberg] told me. “No one expects that you're ever going to fully solve crime in a city.” Yes, but YOU CAN FIRE THE POLICE CHIEF.
@alexhern Alex Hern on x
Stunning, mark zuckerberg has jumped on another trend and declared he's refocusing Facebook towards it? Unprecedented https://twitter.com/...
@thedextriarchy Adi Robertson on x
I really shouldn't think about the “metaverse” until I'm in a headspace to imagine it being anything except the most depressing modern mainstream version of the web and media landscape, in high definition 3D and cemented in place for decades. https://www.theverge.com/...
@ballmatthew Matthew Ball on x
Agree w/ Mark Most likely outcome is like web today. Billions of websites across different domains, registrars, hosts, etc. But a handful of horizontal companies dominate the most popular ones/total usage, close much of them And access pathways (e.g. iPhones) control further http…
@hypervisible Hypervisible Dot Pdf on x
People aren't meant to navigate the world through a series of apps—they are supposed to navigate it through a VR system in a universe of surveillance and advertising all mediated by Facebook—the way god intended. https://twitter.com/...
@alexeheath Alex Heath on x
“I think over the next five years or so, in this next chapter of our company, I think we will effectively transition from people seeing us as primarily being a social media company to being a metaverse company” https://twitter.com/...
@ceciliakang Cecilia Kang on x
In which Zuckerberg compares Facebook's vaccines misinformation problem to police fighting crime? Arguably FB has the resources and funds to police misinformation compared to the actual police on crime. https://twitter.com/...
@craigsilverman Craig Silverman on x
Zuckerberg compares Facebook to a city and its integrity efforts to the police. It makes sense only if you accept that Facebook is an inevitable byproduct of human society, and not a set of products that exist to make money for shareholders and this one guy who controls it all. h…
@reese_shapiro Allison on x
Do not worry about what the metaverse is, this will all make sense when the new Dr.Strange comes out https://twitter.com/...
@martinsfp Martin Sfp Bryant on x
Mark Zuckerberg: “We will effectively transition from people seeing us as primarily being a social media company to being a metaverse company.” https://www.theverge.com/...
@reneritchie Rene Ritchie on x
Goal all along was to have Newsfeed destroy the real world so much we'd all be desperate to flee in our own personal VR echo bubble oasis-hells? https://twitter.com/...
@caseynewton Casey Newton on x
The VC @ballmatthew has written a series of influential essays in recent years about what a metaverse is. From Fortnite to Roblox to Facebook, executives are paying attention https://www.matthewball.vc/... https://twitter.com/...
@caseynewton Casey Newton on x
In other ways, though, a metaverse seems to be exponentially harder to govern than the internet we have today. Among other things, it seems likely to splinter our shared sense of reality even further https://twitter.com/...
@tomhbunting Tom Bunting on x
Facebook, for all of its excess and sloppiness, is smart in acknowledging the future is beyond Web 2.0 social networking. The issue is that the “metaverse” is incredibly hazy; wholly based on user interest and scale. Do people still trust Facebook? https://www.theverge.com/...

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